BELOVED YELLOWSTONE WOLF'S KILLING BY TROPHY HUNTER

[longshot406]

So show some proof of the "hybrid" wolves. mtmuley

Proof?? I am only referencing the fact we used to have these little timber wolves and now the wolves that are taking over the west are much bigger and are elk killing machine's. In decades past people who wanted wolves were known to have released "hybrids" they had raised into the wild. When the feds were pen raising the Canadian wolves they purchased they had to have different breeding stock so hence my use of the word "hybrid". The genetic purity of our wolves is questionable. JMO

 

[mtmuley]

When did we have "little timber wolves"? Pen raised wolves that were purchased? Jesus. mtmuley

 

[shaughn]

The self sustaining breeding population was extinct prior to ww2, but dens were found in the 70's and in the 80's and 90's natural colonisation by wolves was under way and the government sponsored reintroduction began in 1995.

The "WILD" packs brought in from Jasper National Park in Alberta are most likely the "same" as what was found historically...A "WILD" group from British Columbia was brought in and they would likely be regarded in the same light as coming from the western ranges....

 

[mtmuley]

I always wondered why the wolves used in the reintroduction from Jasper were any different than the ones that wandered across the border regularly. Hmmmm…. They aren't. I know there were wolves breeding and raising pups in Glacier Park as far back as 1984. Longer I bet, but that's what I remember as of now. mtmuley

 

[longshot406]

When did we have "little timber wolves"? Pen raised wolves that were purchased? Jesus. mtmuley

The feds Bought, which means purchased, wolves from Canada, then kept them in pens and hand fed them ect. for a year or so. What's to argue about?

 

[mtmuley]

Got a link to info? mtmuley

 

[longshot406]

Got a link to info? mtmuley

Info to what? It's old news. I'm done with this conversation and only commented because it struck a nerve with me. I've lived here long enough to have seen the damage done and miss the good ole days! The North fork of the Flathead that borders Glacier Park is a desert now! Our back country and this whole corner of the state is nothing like it once was. They even closed our goat hunting areas! Yellowstone and Northern Idaho's elk herds have been decimated and no, I don't believe it's climate change causing it! So I'm done with this forum, it reminds me of Facebook, and I'm going back to my loading room now to load more special purpose long range ammo so I can continue to do my part.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

This article highlights the fundamental problem that plagues federal land management.
Unfortunately a bunch of Left Wing Marxist nut jobs in CA, NY, etc... set policy that effects those of us who live in or hunt in the west.

Weaponizing the ESA to stop timber management, recreation, and access to millions of acres of federal lands is one example.

As much as I love the back country this is why the Wilderness act scares me.. Environmentalists want to turn every bit of USFS land into wilderness to guarantee it will never be managed, just wait I'll bet the farm that they'll try to stop hunting in wilderness areas next. They'll call it a natural Eco system where animals are free from destruction by humans, just look at all the conflict with Grizzlies this last year... perfect excuse to lock hunters out.

Luckily we just voted down the Scotchman Peaks Wilderness in North Idaho.
people don't realize that "Potential Wilderness Area" buffers are placed on USFS land all the time and carry the same restrictions as full blown wilderness designations, but without being approved by congress.

 

[TG-5150]

This article highlights the fundamental problem that plagues federal land management.
Unfortunately a bunch of Left Wing Marxist nut jobs in CA, NY, etc... set policy that effects those of us who live in or hunt in the west.

Weaponizing the ESA to stop timber management, recreation, and access to millions of acres of federal lands is one example.

As much as I love the back country this is why the Wilderness act scares me.. Environmentalists want to turn every bit of USFS land into wilderness to guarantee it will never be managed, just wait I'll bet the farm that they'll try to stop hunting in wilderness areas next. They'll call it a natural Eco system where animals are free from destruction by humans, just look at all the conflict with Grizzlies this last year... perfect excuse to lock hunters out.

Luckily we just voted down the Scotchman Peaks Wilderness in North Idaho.
people don't realize that "Potential Wilderness Area" buffers are placed on USFS land all the time and carry the same restrictions as full blown wilderness designations, but without being approved by congress.

Info to what? It's old news. I'm done with this conversation and only commented because it struck a nerve with me. I've lived here long enough to have seen the damage done and miss the good ole days! The North fork of the Flathead that borders Glacier Park is a desert now! Our back country and this whole corner of the state is nothing like it once was. They even closed our goat hunting areas! Yellowstone and Northern Idaho's elk herds have been decimated and no, I don't believe it's climate change causing it! So I'm done with this forum, it reminds me of Facebook, and I'm going back to my loading room now to load more special purpose long range ammo so I can continue to do my part.

I always wondered why the wolves used in the reintroduction from Jasper were any different than the ones that wandered across the border regularly. Hmmmm…. They aren't. I know there were wolves breeding and raising pups in Glacier Park as far back as 1984. Longer I bet, but that's what I remember as of now. mtmuley

Holly schmollies folks. We are all on the same side, or should be. FFS.
Maybe we should realize that on one end of things, some of us are nothing more than a suburbanite that will never see a fresh wolf track... to the hard workin' local redneck that hunts n traps n fishs his arse off(guys like me) to the fella that has entirely to many funds and way to many toys to the super conservative Gun Totin' Jonny Muir that's trying to save the friggin' planet from crap they can barely admit has happened, that was out of control before they ever got their first degree.
We need more wilderness like a hole in the head. Global warming has been goin' on since the last ice age admitted it was over. And the wolves that were breeding in Glacier National Park were from Canada too. They just read the damned brochure

 

[shaughn]

I think myself, even without the reintroduction, that this issue would have been cropping it's head up.

The government experts and those of similar bent just sped things up...evidence of the establishment of a stable population was there all along, it's just that outside of certain circles no one could see it.

So what are the options.....

Poison them all to wipe them out?

The sustainable breeding wolf population was wiped out before ww2...note I say sustainable...they were still wolves around and new prospective packs coming down from Canada and if 40 or so years saw them start to establish enough of a foothold to be noticed by biologists, then another 20 -30 years at most would have most likely seen us , where we are now without mans interference...

We are left with no real choice but to work to educate both sides that a management plan must be worked out...and you know what the compromise that will have to be worked out won't satisfy anyone...

Believe me..wouldn't want to sit down at that table......

 

[Hand Skills]

unless one tends to study wolves, especially grey wolves...people don't realise that they can easily get to 80 pounds plus and are quite large...color spectrum from coyote color mix to almost black, but more cream browns and grey black..can vary by region and pack.

Hence why you hear "Hybrid" cause people are not familiar with them...to be so big they can't be "Pure"...have to remember...they hunted bison/elk/moose you aren't going to see a dainty coyote charge up to an elk..sick or not..old or not..out numbered or not...and pull it down...an adult wolf with a pack behind them...definitely.

I think you got it backwards. An 80lbs wolf, 2yrs old or more is likely to be the hybrid. Wolves can cross with dogs and coyotes. This usually results in smaller offspring, not larger.

I was conceived in Jasper National park and grew up fishing, hunting and foraging on the backside in WMU 437/438. To me, and in that environment, an average wolf is 100lbs. Big females go 150-160lbs. Big males push 200lbs, easily 180+.

They are BIG, and pretty hard to confuse with a coyote, even at unknown distances. When in doubt, look at the tracks. Coyote prints are the size of a 50cent piece. Wolf prints are a lot like cougar prints - 3"+.

 

[TG-5150]

There was a studying recently completed by a university, I think it was Minnesota or Michigan, not sure. The study was a DNA study about grays, timbers, eastern reds, and maybe even the Mexican wolf. What the test confirmed is that grays and timbers are the same breed, everything else is a wolf/coyote hybrid. Which put the animal savers in a tizzy. Which is good for us, then they would be fair game.
I'll see if I can locate the study and post it, as I am paraphrasing from memory

 

[TG-5150]

This wasn't the University report I had looked up a few weeks ago but this is close
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-endangered-status-because-its-just-a-hybrid/

 

[Zen Archery]

Seemed like a fair and balanced article .