Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor

[Buck Buster]

The .22LR has taken more game in the US than all others combined, the 30-30 would probably be second and then the 06 simply due to the sheer number of military models that came home with soldiers or that later got sporterized.

World wide it would have to be the 6.5x55 and .303 British.

My response was toward deer more than total game ! When a 30-30 is mentioned my mind goes into big game mod right away ! A 22LR is basically a small game caliber, and as far as total numbers of any type game you are probably right ! I know they can kill even deer with a well placed shot, but I have shot and had more turkeys get away using them than I care to mention, and will not use them anymore for turkeys !

 

[Buck Buster]

The 700 ADL that I bought for my father in the early 70's is in 30-06, and that is the go-to hunting rifle of all my rifles in the safe. The only modifications that have been made on the rifle are that the barrel has been glass bedded and floated and a KickEez recoil pad installed. It will shoot MOA all day long! It is not my favorite rifle, and it only comes out a couple of times a year just to dust it off for nostalgic reasons. I recently read an article in Outdoor Life citing the 30-30 was the most popular caliber for hunting white tail deer, with (2) 30-06, (3) 280 Rem, (4) 270 Win, (5) 243, (6) 300 WinMag, (7) 35 Whelen, (8) 308 Win, (9) 338 Federal, (10) 7mm RemMag. The order was a bit surprising to me, but I knew that the 30-30 was up there. And......my 30-06 will always be my go to rifle, reliable, doesn't beat you up and gets the job done!!

My goof: I was thinking deer and deer sized game and not total game when I saw 30-30 ! I started hunting at 12 with a 222 savage w/clip then after loosing a few deer went to a 30-30 then when I got a little more *** I received a 30-06 for Christmas that I still have, but I use a 300 win. mag. the most now incase I get that longer shot across a mountain or out a gas line or power line easement. I am 66 now and have seen what blows up when it hits brush and what seems to stay together when it hits or goes completely through trees ! 30 calibers are the largest I have owned and clearly the best when encountering brush that I have seen, this is my 66 year observation and only my opinion, you are entitled to yours ! Good luck hunting and shooting to all ! Happy Holidays

 

[WildRose]

My response was toward deer more than total game ! When a 30-30 is mentioned my mind goes into big game mod right away ! A 22LR is basically a small game caliber, and as far as total numbers of any type game you are probably right ! I know they can kill even deer with a well placed shot, but I have shot and had more turkeys get away using them than I care to mention, and will not use them anymore for turkeys !

It is today but sixty years ago it was the only rifle a lot of people owned. Through the depression it was the only rifle many people could afford to shoot at all.

At one time my great grandfather often fed his family walking ten miles to town to buy .22lr's and .38sp's one shell at a time because that's all he could afford.

He'd then try to kill whatever game popped up on the way back.

I get your line of thinking though.

 

[bigngreen]

It's a tough one with kids on elk, I really feel for the OP, I would applaud you and your kid for getting back in there and getting her and one should be proud of him being compossed enough to put a second shot on her, I've seen many men do a mag dump and never come close after the first shot. Unfortunately learning the effects of shot placement is sometimes a rocky road I hope it didn't shake him!! I use a little elk picture when taking kids so they have a reference point and I have them hold back 4-6 inches back from the crease, your still in the middle of the lungs but helping them stay of the shoulder.
The Creedmore and the bullet we're fine choices for a youngster on elk, it's just to much for that bullet to punch through every time. I've watch three elk in one week get shot in the shoulder and not have the bullet make it into the chest, 300 WBY with 168 TSX, 30-06 with 165 TSX and a 300 WSM with a 180 Accubond. I had to dispatch the first, the second I called the shot and he held back on her and dropped her with a heart shot, the third ran to just over 600 and stopped and I blew her heart out with a 140 gr Berger.
A friend shoots a Creedmore and most season everyone ends up using it to shoot elk, every shot in the crease or a little back with a 140 Berger and nothing requires a second shot or tracking, the main thing is not shooting them in the shoulder!!

 

[xsn10s]

I use a little elk picture when taking kids so they have a reference point and I have them hold back 4-6 inches back from the crease, your still in the middle of the lungs but helping them stay of the shoulder.

Yup were back on track. This is the same comment make quite often on the 6.5 GAP FB page. And the are mostly shooting VLD type bullets. So IMO it was shot placement, not bullet construction. Here's an excellent article on Big John A. and his Partition. He was an awesome guy that designed a iconic bullet.

 

[Hatrick]

It is today but sixty years ago it was the only rifle a lot of people owned. Through the depression it was the only rifle many people could afford to shoot at all.

At one time my great grandfather often fed his family walking ten miles to town to buy .22lr's and .38sp's one shell at a time because that's all he could afford.

He'd then try to kill whatever game popped up on the way back.

I get your line of thinking though.

This brought back memories for me. I can remember buying single shotgun shells at the hardware store. Low or high brass depending on small game or duck hunting. I don't miss it.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Yup were back on track. This is the same comment make quite often on the 6.5 GAP FB page. And the are mostly shooting VLD type bullets. So IMO it was shot placement, not bullet construction. Here's an excellent article on Big John A. and his Partition. He was an awesome guy that designed a iconic bullet.

Back on track...

I am going to lean hard on the idea that this cow was quartering away some. This is difficult to see for experienced hunters let alone a new one. If the shot was held tight into the shoulder on a quartering away elk, nothing would have done the job. You just can't reach the vitals. Fortunately this cow gave up. I had this experience with a young hunter and her cow did not give up. It was my fault for not telling her to aim for the far leg. I felt terrible. She now knows to look to the far leg on quartering away and front of shoulder on quartering to shots. Not the way we wanted to learn the lesson.

 

[Korhil78]

Not trying to be rude at all here but I am going to go out on a limb here and say that some of the people posting on this thread have read a bunch of articles on elk hunting and now they have killed 2 or 3 themselves just by reading the articles.

If you have never de-boned meat from an elk, let me tell you that it is an eye opener. Those bones are big and solid! After seeing it, you would think that it is absolutely ridiculous to try to put a bullet through it and get positive results every time. Especially using a lighter bullet.

The bullet in no way failed in the OP's scenario. The bullet was put in a situation that it could not overcome. Some people on here are absolutely right, shot placement played the role in the bullet not being able to do its job. Others on here are just speculating that because the OP was using a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 140 gr projectile that it wasn't enough gun to kill an elk. Well I am here to tell you that a 30-06 with a 180 gr partition could have performed the same way if it struck the leg/shoulder bones of an elk. I have actually witnessed someone shooting an elk in the hind quarter with a 300 gr bullet fired from a 338 Lapua. The bullet lodged in the femur and went no further. It broke the femur in half but the elk was still standing an moving. So if a 300 gr bullet cant do it, why would it be reasonable to think that a 140 gr bullet could?

The simple fact is that if that 140 gr bullet fired from the lowly 6.5 Creedmoor was put into the lungs, it would have been a dead elk. BigNGreen just stated every FACT that needed to be known out of these 17 pages (some others did as well). FACTS are all that matters in discussions like these. Opinions lead to 17 pages of this thread.

 

[WildRose]

Not trying to be rude at all here but I am going to go out on a limb here and say that some of the people posting on this thread have read a bunch of articles on elk hunting and now they have killed 2 or 3 themselves just by reading the articles.

If you have never de-boned meat from an elk, let me tell you that it is an eye opener. Those bones are big and solid! After seeing it, you would think that it is absolutely ridiculous to try to put a bullet through it and get positive results every time. Especially using a lighter bullet.

The bullet in no way failed in the OP's scenario. The bullet was put in a situation that it could not overcome. Some people on here are absolutely right, shot placement played the role in the bullet not being able to do its job. Others on here are just speculating that because the OP was using a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 140 gr projectile that it wasn't enough gun to kill an elk. Well I am here to tell you that a 30-06 with a 180 gr partition could have performed the same way if it struck the leg/shoulder bones of an elk. I have actually witnessed someone shooting an elk in the hind quarter with a 300 gr bullet fired from a 338 Lapua. The bullet lodged in the femur and went no further. It broke the femur in half but the elk was still standing an moving. So if a 300 gr bullet cant do it, why would it be reasonable to think that a 140 gr bullet could?

The simple fact is that if that 140 gr bullet fired from the lowly 6.5 Creedmoor was put into the lungs, it would have been a dead elk. BigNGreen just stated every FACT that needed to be known out of these 17 pages (some others did as well). FACTS are all that matters in discussions like these. Opinions lead to 17 pages of this thread.

"Don't use a tack hammer when the job calls for a sledge".

No matter what type of bullet or game you are shooting consider both when deciding on shot placement and odds are things will turn out fine.

 

[ATH]

Awful thread in many ways.

I get it, it's a youth, but a 6.5 is marginal to begin with, and put marginal in the hands of a youth with lack of experience and you get a shoulder shot with an inadequate round. Would have been better to a) give them an adequate round with a brake, or b) pass the shot and get closer with the gear in hand.

Elk are tough. I personally have put 4 rounds of 200AB out of a 300WM through the lungs at 600 yards and had the bull shake it off and stay on his feet for 4-5 minutes until keeling over. But I didn't shoot the shoulder, and such a load would clearly bust the shoulder better than a 6.5.

I really encourage using larger diameter rounds on elk.

 

[WildRose]

Awful thread in many ways.

I get it, it's a youth, but a 6.5 is marginal to begin with, and put marginal in the hands of a youth with lack of experience and you get a shoulder shot with an inadequate round. Would have been better to a) give them an adequate round with a brake, or b) pass the shot and get closer with the gear in hand.

Elk are tough. I personally have put 4 rounds of 200AB out of a 300WM through the lungs at 600 yards and had the bull shake it off and stay on his feet for 4-5 minutes until keeling over. But I didn't shoot the shoulder, and such a load would clearly bust the shoulder better than a 6.5.

I really encourage using larger diameter rounds on elk.

They have a very large lung volume. No matter what you are shooting it takes time for the lungs to fill with blood and for the BP to hit zero.

 

[clacka6mm]

It's not the bullet or caliber.... it's the shot location.... lost an elk 3 days in a row..... 8 shots from a 6mm with 3100 fps light mag 95 gr SSTs and 100 gr partitions running 3000 all same area hit.... she went straight up a 60 degree incline. After 3 days 3 shots on her each day 8 of 9 hitting...... never did find her. Yet when I get proper shot placement I've dropped another animal ( again cow elk )at 427 yards from the same 95 gr sst hornady and punched straight through her vitals and she left 24 inch wide blood trail until she completely blead out about 400 yrs over the hill from initial 427 yard single shot in her..... ( only time I've ever gutted an animal and not even got bloody..... so its shot placement more than caliber..

 

[clacka6mm]

Use 143 eldx or 140 gr partition.... bump up in bullet to as heavy as the gun will stabilize and still be accurate to 400

 

[JemezDave]

It's not the bullet or caliber.... it's the shot location.... lost an elk 3 days in a row..... 8 shots from a 6mm with 3100 fps light mag 95 gr SSTs and 100 gr partitions running 3000 all same area hit.... she went straight up a 60 degree incline. After 3 days 3 shots on her each day 8 of 9 hitting...... never did find her. Yet when I get proper shot placement I've dropped another animal ( again cow elk )at 427 yards from the same 95 gr sst hornady and punched straight through her vitals and she left 24 inch wide blood trail until she completely blead out about 400 yrs over the hill from initial 427 yard single shot in her..... ( only time I've ever gutted an animal and not even got bloody..... so its shot placement more than caliber..

Uh, no, it's all of these factors. If you're using a match bullet for hunting elk it won't match the performance of a real hunting bullet. It's bullet construction, range, energy, conditions, shooter ability, shot placement, ability to make a follow up shot quickly, caliber-it all matters. I'd hope that guys with less experience get this rather than getting so hung up on BC. We decide to take the shot or not-make the right call and if your in doubt even a little, don't take the shot.
My ultimate point is these game animals also feel pain. I would not want to die of a gut shot wound. It's good to talk about these things from time to time.