Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor

[Bravo 4]

It's not the bullet or caliber.... it's the shot location.... lost an elk 3 days in a row..... 8 shots from a 6mm with 3100 fps light mag 95 gr SSTs and 100 gr partitions running 3000 all same area hit.... she went straight up a 60 degree incline. After 3 days 3 shots on her each day 8 of 9 hitting...... never did find her.

Are you saying that all 8 hits were bad?

I agree that skinning/quartering/de-boning an elk is a humbling experience, especially a large bull.
I will not say that a 6mm bullet can not kill an elk, your crazy to think that. I will say that only one of the elk I've seen shot (a mere fraction of BnG's experience) dropped. Most absorbed bullets like a sponge and either stood there or simply started to walk away, even with appropriate bullets from some largely chambered rifles. I have to drive a long ways, spend a bit of money, and hunt hard to get maybe one shot (or sighting). I would not take the chance with a small caliber rifle shooting small bullets. If I lived where I could hunt them more than a week or so every year or two, I may carry something like a 6.5 just to do it. But cannot bring myself to recommend it against such a large animal unless I knew I could take a really good behind the shoulder shot. I would rather have my .338 RUM loaded with the Hammers I'm running and not feel bad about taking a quartering too shot, or busting through a heavy leg or shoulder bone. Steve told me they would probably go end to end in an elk, and they did while destroying everything in their path. Hard to expect that from a tiny bullet.

 

[Alibiiv]

Uh, no, it's all of these factors. If you're using a match bullet for hunting elk it won't match the performance of a real hunting bullet. It's bullet construction, range, energy, conditions, shooter ability, shot placement, ability to make a follow up shot quickly, caliber-it all matters. I'd hope that guys with less experience get this rather than getting so hung up on BC. We decide to take the shot or not-make the right call and if your in doubt even a little, don't take the shot.
My ultimate point is these game animals also feel pain. I would not want to die of a gut shot wound. It's good to talk about these things from time to time.

Thank you JemezDave, of all the posts that I have read on this subject this makes the most sense of them all. "It's bullet construction, range, energy, conditions, shooter ability, shot placement, ability to make a follow up shot quickly, caliber-it all matters". Before commenting any further I would like to say that I am not an elk hunter, have never shot an elk, however would if the opportunity ever presented itself. I just do not want to be criticized for not being an elk hunter and making a comment on how to shoot an elk. I will also admit the farthest shot that I have ever made on a game animal was a small buck at 450 yards with a .270 Winchester with 130 grain Nosler partition bullet. The deer dropped right in its tracks, and I "thought" that it was down, but it got up and ran. I couldn't get back on the deer to take a follow up shot because of the distance. We tracked the deer for two days before we lost the trail in a cedar swamp. I wouldn't take that shot today. I can however say that I have shot caribou, countless white tail deer and a number of black bear; and, have witnessed where a large number of black bear have been harvested by other hunters in outfitter camps. The larger the caliber and the heavier the bullet meant the less work for the guides. When we talk about shooting an animal that is being hunted and shot we don't have to be talking elk, what JemezDave has written in his post is applicable to "ALL" game that we hunt, no matter what the species!! Many of us are shooting at game that is going to run away from us and not at us. If you have read any of the threads and posts where people are grizzly hunting, the hunters are not worried about the animal getting up and running away from them, the are worried about the animal running at them and tearing them apart. They're asking, "Is my bullet heavy enough", "is the caliber of my rifle large enough for the bear that I am hunting", "is the construction of my bullet going to work on the bear?" They would be nuts to be concerned about anything else!! It's a hunting double standard when we make the statement that its enough caliber, it will take the animal down and the bullet possesses enough damage and does devastating damage with pass throughs when we are hunting something that is going to run away from us; however, when something is going to come at us/the hunter, and do us some serious bodily injury or death (dangerous game), now what we are seriously concerned about turns to insuring terminal ballistics on the game that is being hunted and it is even suggested that the hunter carries a large handgun that is readily available at all times as back up in case what we have chosen to hunt with is inadequate!! Good job JemezDave your post really sums it up.

 

[bigngreen]

Thee worst performing bullets on elk I've seen have been "Hunting" bullets, some of the hands down best have been "Match", the sooner you drop Marketing hype and start opening up elk and seeing what your bullets are doing the sooner you'll find a bullet that get it done for you.

 

[antelopedundee]

They have a very large lung volume. No matter what you are shooting it takes time for the lungs to fill with blood and for the BP to hit zero.

Assuming that the lungs stay intact. A proper lung shot will deflate the lungs almost immediately. An intact or partially fragmented high velocity bullet should cause the lung/s to initially expand [akin to shooting a capped metal can plumb full of water ] from hydrostatic pressure until they rupture and then they'd probably immediately collapse. After most of the good hits I've had you could put the lungs in something the size of a Cool Whip bowl.

 

[clacka6mm]

In my case yes all 8 were into 1 front shoulder. Hit bone and deflected. Or just didnt penetrate where it needed to.. but I was also 19 at the time and shot the gun maybe 2 times a year.. now I shoot it probably 400 rounds a year much better hunter today than I was then why I can now today feel safe taking a 400+ yd shot with small caliber and feel very confident it's going to produce a quick kill

 

[RockyMtnMT]

In my case yes all 8 were into 1 front shoulder. Hit bone and deflected. Or just didnt penetrate where it needed to.. but I was also 19 at the time and shot the gun maybe 2 times a year.. now I shoot it probably 400 rounds a year much better hunter today than I was then why I can now today feel safe taking a 400+ yd shot with small caliber and feel very confident it's going to produce a quick kill

If you did not change bullets I think your confidence is misguided. The smaller the caliber the more important bullet choice becomes.

 

[clacka6mm]

No I learned proper shot placement for said caliber and bullets available... an SST,ELDX and partition work FLAWLESSLY if you put them where they do the most damage for their size and caliber.... on my last elk kill in 2017 I got a in through ribs through boiler maker and 95 gr SST was perfectly mushroomed at 77 gr retained weight on opposing hide just behind front shoulder. The gr of lost weight was inbedded in the opposing shoulder bone with blood flowing a 2 ft wide trail out both sides of the cow.... while being shot from 427 yards the bullet is fine.... placement is what mattered more than changing a bullet.....

 

[Buck Buster]

It's not the bullet or caliber.... it's the shot location.... lost an elk 3 days in a row..... 8 shots from a 6mm with 3100 fps light mag 95 gr SSTs and 100 gr partitions running 3000 all same area hit.... she went straight up a 60 degree incline. After 3 days 3 shots on her each day 8 of 9 hitting...... never did find her. Yet when I get proper shot placement I've dropped another animal ( again cow elk )at 427 yards from the same 95 gr sst hornady and punched straight through her vitals and she left 24 inch wide blood trail until she completely blead out about 400 yrs over the hill from initial 427 yard single shot in her..... ( only time I've ever gutted an animal and not even got bloody..... so its shot placement more than caliber..

Shot placement means an awful lot ! But I would think by day three I would be sold on having a much larger bullet to do the job with, I would rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it as it would appear in this case to me, just my opinion ! Even on deer I learned a long time ago the perfect shot placement doesn't always happen, the animal can move just as your pulling the trigger or you hit a little limb that you didn't see or you just got more excited than usual for what ever reason, and I decided then that I would always use a 30 caliber with all the different bullets that are available they are good from varmints to most big game in America ! Only for the larger bears would I likely want a gun with more killing power ! Dangerous African game would even call for a gun with the highest of energies to let me take the shot on one! Again this is just my views, but I have talked to many in my 66 years that agree, it's best not to send a boy to do a mans job !

 

[Buck Buster]

Are you saying that all 8 hits were bad?

I agree that skinning/quartering/de-boning an elk is a humbling experience, especially a large bull.
I will not say that a 6mm bullet can not kill an elk, your crazy to think that. I will say that only one of the elk I've seen shot (a mere fraction of BnG's experience) dropped. Most absorbed bullets like a sponge and either stood there or simply started to walk away, even with appropriate bullets from some largely chambered rifles. I have to drive a long ways, spend a bit of money, and hunt hard to get maybe one shot (or sighting). I would not take the chance with a small caliber rifle shooting small bullets. If I lived where I could hunt them more than a week or so every year or two, I may carry something like a 6.5 just to do it. But cannot bring myself to recommend it against such a large animal unless I knew I could take a really good behind the shoulder shot. I would rather have my .338 RUM loaded with the Hammers I'm running and not feel bad about taking a quartering too shot, or busting through a heavy leg or shoulder bone. Steve told me they would probably go end to end in an elk, and they did while destroying everything in their path. Hard to expect that from a tiny bullet.

I agree 100% I am a believer in lead !! 30 cal. or larger for elk and moose ! The bigger and also the meaner game to me mean more lead and more energy too !!

 

[Canhunter35]

It's not the bullet or caliber.... it's the shot location.... lost an elk 3 days in a row..... 8 shots from a 6mm with 3100 fps light mag 95 gr SSTs and 100 gr partitions running 3000 all same area hit.... she went straight up a 60 degree incline. After 3 days 3 shots on her each day 8 of 9 hitting...... never did find her. Yet when I get proper shot placement I've dropped another animal ( again cow elk )at 427 yards from the same 95 gr sst hornady and punched straight through her vitals and she left 24 inch wide blood trail until she completely blead out about 400 yrs over the hill from initial 427 yard single shot in her..... ( only time I've ever gutted an animal and not even got bloody..... so its shot placement more than caliber..

I'm sorry, but I'm incredulous that you took your 6mm back out elk hunting after that experience instead of buying a bigger rifle

 

[bigngreen]

Obviously some of you have not seen 30 cal bullets stopped dead on elk bone, I don't treat mine any different when shooting elk than a 6.5, 270 or 7mm, if I shoot for a shoulder I'm doing so under the assumption I'll be shooting it again.

 

[Canhunter35]

Obviously some of you have not seen 30 cal bullets stopped dead on elk bone, I don't treat mine any different when shooting elk than a 6.5, 270 or 7mm, if I shoot for a shoulder I'm doing so under the assumption I'll be shooting it again.

Until the animal is down i always assume I might be shooting again and No I haven't seen a shoulder shot get stopped from a heavy 30cal bullet. Regardless, 8 shots with a 200+gr 30cal bullet in the shoulder will produce massively different results than a 6mm plugging away into the shoulder.
This wasn't meant to be argumentitive, but I encourage people to take a tool suited for the task at hand. Modern bullets have changed the capabilities of cartridges but limitations still exist

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Too small and lacking velocity at this distance, for the shot placement. I've seen Partitions separate but only to the extent of losing that front core.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Looks like impact vel would have been about 2200 fps at 4000' elev and a 2700 fps muzzle vel. 130g Sledge Hammer would arrive at 2350 fps with a starting vel of 2950 fps. A 117g Sledge Hammer would arrive at 2400 fps starting at 3075fps. Both of these bullets will retain close to 90%.

This is part of the reason that I push for higher muzzle vel.