This is whats wrong with hunting today

[Grey Goast]

Some people cannot debate the pros and cons of the original subject matter without getting mad should not debate on the subject at hand nor try to change the subject out of anger just agree to disagree and leave it at that and every one can get along and the matter would have been over after the first 5 to 10 pages. I 'm sure everyone would agree with that. God Bless Peace of Mind and Soul Amen.

 

[SheepShapeAK]

32?! We can make it to 35.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

The only thing I take away from this thread is the small bore big game crowd has not convinced me on their arguments.

They get really mad when you use anything over a 6mm. You can't be accurate and surly can't handle recoil from a magnum cartridge. You'll completely miss the animal or gut shot it every time if the rifle has any recoil whatsoever. So…enter the 22 CM…the best cartridge ever, apparently. MULEYFREAK tells us as much…very poorly I might add.

I actually want to get rifles chambered in 22 and 6mm CM. Not for elk hunting, however.
I'm thinking coyote and deer rifles, respectively.

But don't listen to me…what do I know? My freezers look like this every winter…

 

[akmtnhnt]

So…enter the 22 CM…the best cartridge ever, apparently. MULEYFREAK tells us as much…very poorly I might add.

I've never seen a video from him before this, but I thought maybe he'd have a basic understanding of external ballistics if you're going to hold yourself that way. It was so poorly done and I was like this guy has no idea what he's talking about. I can only figure he got to his opinion by parroting something he's read but doesn't understand.
That said I am a smaller caliber fan(technically not small caliber, but reduced recoil/tool for the job(300blk is a great round for many things), but the video was facepalm.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

That said I am a smaller caliber fan, but

Honestly, nothing wrong with this IMO. I just don't like when folks tell me I must use a small caliber for big game using false arguments.

 

[Red22]

My hot take after reading this thread is that people would rather watch videos of other people doing things versus actually putting in the practice of shooting. They think that because some "expert" has a video about it that they must have done the research because they have a YouTube channel. My 2 cents, shoot what you have and be able to put a quality bullet in the right place

 

[Buzzsaw]

costs

 

[340Wby-4-everything]

Use the right tool for the right job and a sub-bore/smallbore/smallgame weapon as my shotgun pals say, is great for what it was designed for, but limits your distance, and your killing power so use it within its constraints and you're good. Problem is we have idiots like this telling us we should hunt Cape buffalo, Kodiaks and Polar bears with a pellet rifle and they think a 22 or anything called a needmore has no constraints. As Ruark said, "Use enough gun" and many others have said "shoot the biggest caliber you can, accurately. That way, if you make a little error, it very well may be able to compensate for you." Assuming reasonable, generally accepted distances (Not LR, as not everyone has near the skills some or many of the shooters on here do) for these calibers and game. Here is just my opinion:

Small game calibers - .17 to 6mm
Deer calibers - 6mm to .30/.325/.338
American big game (Elk to the biggest bears) calibers - fast 6.5mms (and cm is Not fast) to .375
African big game calibers - fast 6.5s to .416s & for Dangerous - .375 to .505 or other small Artillery

 

[JakeC]

What a joke! For clicks and likes, he is a short and especially, long range game-wounding, convicted game law violating, tresspassing wannabe! It's a real shame that you gave him any play time but i definitely understand your point! It is truly amazing how a thug like this can get any coverage much less a SPONSOR ie. Nightforce and others….

Rant over

He's not my favorite, even though he's local, but I think it's worth noting that the trespassing charge died on arrival in court when he was able to play video of himself getting permission. Utah trespassing charges can be… funky. In theory. Again, not holding him up as a role model, he's very desperate to be off the JV internet hunter roster which as others have noted leads to pointless brainless controversy in videos, but it's worth being accurate. Oddly if you look at more details about the case it makes your case much more strongly than just trespassing.

Trying to justify big game hunting with 22 caliber is crazY, it is hard to believe that we're here.

 

[akmtnhnt]

Honestly, nothing wrong with this IMO. I just don't like when folks tell me I must use a small caliber for big game using false arguments.

I think everyone should use whatever they want. Similarly, I can't stand it when someone tells me a 243 or even 224 diameter bullet isn't sufficient for X Norther American game. Bullet construction and placement is so much more important than the diameter or energy upon impact. The vegans haven't outfitted bears and moose with armor yet.

 

[cajun]

I think everyone should use whatever they want. Similarly, I can't stand it when someone tells me a 243 or even 224 diameter bullet isn't sufficient for X Norther American game. Bullet construction and placement is so much more important than the diameter or energy upon impact. The vegans haven't outfitted bears and moose with armor yet.

Yes but if I put a 224 88 gr eld or a 284 180 gr eld in an elk or deers chest which one will do more damage? People act like small calibers are inherently more accurate than larger calibers or that guys cant shoot a 7prc as good as a 22 creedmore.

 

[akmtnhnt]

or that guys cant shoot a 7prc as good as a 22 creedmore.

All data that's ever been collected on this says they can't. Can you put one in the large target of a deer or more? Very likely, but no, almost no one can shoot a 7prc as well as a 22 creed. Or what's more accurate is that no one can shoot a rifle with 35 ft-lbs of recoil as well as one with 8 ft-lbs.
I wish more of that data wasn't propriety and locked up, but group sizes open up with everyone, even professionals when recoil gets much above 12ft-lbs, and the more you go up the more they really start to open. Then you put them in a field position and the group sizes are quite large.
The amount of people that would kill more animals more ethically by going down in recoil is much higher than the amount of people not getting kills from smaller cartridges.

The difference in time from hit to death from my 243 to my 30-06 on a 400lb bull caribou is nothing.

 

[BigDon]

If it's bigger than you... absolutely.

Is there Really such a thing as 'Too Much Gun'?

 

[FireFlyFishing]

All data that's ever been collected on this says they can't

What data? Gun forum/internet data or published data?

I will admit, small cartridges and calibers allow for faster follow up shots. But, not enough to make it a game changer for me. If you know how to shoot a .30 cal magnum, you typically don't need a follow up shot.

The amount of people that would kill more animals more ethically by going down in recoil is much higher than the amount of people not getting kills from smaller cartridges.

So by your rational, if states wildlife agencies regulated caliber size to 6mm and below for big game, we would have far less game lost and all shots would be more "ethical?"