Do larger calibers really compensate for bad shots?

[WY02K]

You sure about that?

You wouldn't be concerned about that explosive, non-bonded bullet penetrating the guts and bone that it would need to penetrate to reach the vitals on a quartering shot?

Respectfully, I think that you are fooling yourself and falling for the Berger "hype."

My experience has been with 215 Bergers. I've seen a few "come apart". These were on shots that hit bone on the front shoulder of elk. The base of the bullet always stays together and still is mushroomed out. The smallest one I've weighed was still 150 grains. They've been very impressive for me, this is with the hybrid that has the thicker jacket.

 

[LazzInc]

IMHO ,,, a BAD shot with a BIG gun will mean a wounded animal ,,, potentially at a greater distance away.

 

[papa bearjd]

I have seen this mentioned in several threads lately. My experience has been a gutshot animal with a 338 is just as bad as a gutshot animal with a 243. I am not convinced bigger calibers allow for a materially greater margin of error, especially if you are shooting a berger type bullet or one that expands well. What are y'alls thoughts?

A Deer, Elk, Moose with a broken leg from a bad shot, is no more broken legged if it was shot with a .223 or a .458 Winchester magnum: and will travel just as far no matter which cal it's shot with.

 

[CRaTxn]

Couple of points:
A double lung shot with a 22 LR will likely result in a lost animal. Make the same shot with a .308 and it's likely <20 yards to recover animal. Proves energy transfer makes a difference, even on a good shot.
When you watch the reaction of ballistic gel being shot, you quickly notice the effects of larger calibers. The energy (from large calibers/ velocities) throws the gel off the platforms and breaks the boards/ table it sat on, even though it made no contact. Take a typical 243, 6.5, etc and the gel moves, but no where near what the big guns do. Essentially, the larger calibers with solid velocities create a MUCH larger area of damage.
Getting back to the original question. On a gut shot, your odds of recovery increase because of the increased area of damage with larger calibers (all other things being equal).
Which would you rather have happen: 12 ga slug in the guts or a .243 at 50 yards?

Not good analogies sir...thus poor logic drawn from them...a bit scattered also. I don't want to attack you but, I do want new hunters to question this opinion you espoused.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Coming late to the party, but in my experience with poor bullet placement, calibre makes little difference.
I don't like animals to run far after the hit, I am very proficient with walking/running shots and rarely miss, however, as I like the high shoulder shot so that both lungs, or at least one are taken out along with the shoulder/s and the spine for fast immobility, I have experienced 3 times where bullets have missed the spine and sailed clean through imparting little damage.
Excepting 1 occasion where the deer (Sambar stag) dropped at the shot, the other 2 simply ran and kept running never to be seen again.
The 2 that ran, were hit with 30 cal 180 and 200gr bullets from a 300WM, the one that dropped and recovered, was hit with a 250gr 33 cal Partition, the impact difference was obvious, however, it still resulted in a lost deer.

I do NOT believe bigger calibres compensate for poor shot placement, nor do I believe energy transfer makes any kind of difference either.
Have witnessed a 25-06 with frangible 100gr bullets drop huge deer/elk where they stand, while 110gr bonded core bullets out of the same cartridge do LESS damage and the animals run some distance before dropping.

Anyway, that's my experience, amongst others.

Cheers.

 

[Don A Parsons]

The trick is to not pull the trigger on a bad shot.

Don't do it since its a waist of good ammo,,, and our time... the hunting skills we should know and understand for our selves is learned over time and with in...

Like the old guy said,,, if there is any dought what so ever on placing the shot,,, then stand down...

All of know that if branches are in the area there could be a possibility of them obstructing the fight path,,, same goes for the changing environment of winds,,, terrain,,, visibility of light,,, and distance...

This leave the seasoned hunter with 2 options,,, stand-down on the shot or close the gap... It doesn't hurt to shoot with in our limits so long as we know where they are...

My free hand is good from point blank to 87 yards,,, fast and precise,,, a bit more time when the free hands shots move out further,,, 87 yards to 138... And much more time into the 200 to 220 line,,, the reason I know this is practic,,, practic,,, practic... Everyday if not every 3rd...

This year I'm attaching quick sticks to my rifle before leaving camp,,, they allow for the super fast sight-in to drop on critters,,, the thickest part of that is getting the sticks down,,, the clock is running full time in that department as I run them at the range on every outting,,, the only thing they add is a few more yards of range and a steady-eeeer platform to shoot off of...

Even then I still have to stand-down if I don't feel right about the set-up,,, just me i guess...

7 things are running in my thoughts when I'm in the wilds,,, the balance of them is a full time job... Kinda like stock hunting with a bow in hand,,, the limitations of what is possible and the willingness to retreat if it doesn't look like it's going to pan out...

Of course each of us get to pick and choose what works for us...

Happy hunting everyone...

Cheers from the North

 

[Wolf76]

Not good analogies sir...thus poor logic drawn from them...a bit scattered also. I don't want to attack you but, I do want new hunters to question this opinion you espoused.

This is a forum to express opinions. I've shared mine based on experience. If you don't like it or think it's skewed, totally fine with me. No offense taken whatsoever.
The simple point: to make a clean kill takes a few key elements.
A: accuracy
P: penetration
E: expansion/energy
Sometimes you can cheat the system if you take one of the three and do exceptionally well. Like kill a deer with a 22LR by shooting it in the head. A 50 bmg in the guts is far better then a 223, if both are using appropriate bullets.
You and anyone else are totally welcome to challenge my thoughts and ideas. Iron sharpens iron.
Side note: you voiced your disagreement with my points and never provided any counter facts/evidence.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Ugh. A political comment is clearly a sign that the dead horse has been beaten too long. That and something is not totally fine with somebody that took offense.
Over & out.

 

[memtb]

There seems to be a trend developing here! Not everyone has the same beliefs in cartridge/bullet performance. Most of us develop our views from personal experiences! Sometimes animals react after bullet impact....in unexpected ways. Sometimes, a gut-shot animal will show "immediate debilitation" ....while others show little to no effect after bullet impact! Sometimes a sure kill shot....is "not"!

Lastly.....I'm right and you're wrong! Or.....at least that is the belief that I've developed from my experiences with this topic! memtb

 

[Bravo 4]

Sometimes animals react after bullet impact....in unexpected ways. Sometimes, a gut-shot animal will show "immediate debilitation" ....while others show little to no effect after bullet impact! Sometimes a sure kill shot....is "not"!

This is so true! My daughter's first deer was a doe at a little over 100 yards. Totally calm and broadside, hit in center lungs with a 162 SST from my 7 mag. Red rose of death was instant. She hopped a few yards and stopped to look back at the other deer that just stood there looking at her, they went back to feeding within a couple seconds and so she did too! A follow up shot to the shoulder anchored her on the spot.

Added: to make this relevant to the subject, my .375 would have dropped her first shot!

 

[Len Backus]

Side note: you voiced your disagreement with my points and never provided any counter facts/evidence. I have to ask if you're a Democrat.

wolf76

PLEASE KEEP POLITICS OUT OF IT

 

[Varmint Hunter]

IMO - Larger calibers may compensate for "marginal" shots. A "bad" shot, whatever that suggests, is probably a non-fatal hit no matter what you're shooting.

 

[Wolf76]

wolf76

PLEASE KEEP POLITICS OUT OF IT

Sorry about that. Fixed.

 

[krinkansas]

This is a question that will always be debated. I have only hunted white tails so I cannot speak of elk hunting. I suppose as far as elk are concerned caliber sizes compared in this discussion would be more appropriate to compare a 30 cal to something like a 50 bmg or 475 cheytac to quantify meaningful results if possible. Of course I don't see many folks hunting with the last two mentioned. I did shoot a white tail buck in the guts with a 300 win mag 180 sst @ 3150 muzzle velocity. It put him down. About 5 seconds later he stuck his neck up out of the sage and I put one through his neck. I don't think I would have had as much time for a second shot if I had made the first initial shot with my 25-06 and situations being the same but it's anyones guess. I have my own opinions. Like I said, you will never get everyone to agree on an answer for this question.

I agree with this whether you make a good shot or bad. The extra energy of the bigger bores does tend to stun the animal more. Often times they'll give you a second or two more to send a follow up shot. The smaller calibers (I use them and love them for the appropriate size game) just don't transmit the energy to drop them or stun them. A second or two extra and a follow up shot is really important. The animals I hunt don't often give me a lot of setup time, wind blowing, animal moving....lots of stuff that can contribute to not perfect broadside etc. I still want to put that animal down asap and not be a tracker. Those beasts get a little adrenaline and they can go a long ways