Side Arm for Grizzly Country

[sea2summit]

One thing I've noticed reading all the 10mm haters comments is that they are the voice for the big bore wheel guns. I think we've all established that the 10mm AND the Big Bore revolvers are both common bear defense sidearms. Regardless of who uses what, both seem to be the most popular used for bear protection. I've read several stories of defense using both and can't see where one choice is better than the other in all cases. Comes down to personal choice. One thing I have noticed in those users of the Big Bore revolvers is they have it because it's the Baddest of all pistols. Not because it's what they shoot the best or can land shots on target the fastest with most accuracy. It's just the fact that it's a Magnum and a big one. The other fact I see is, the shooters using pistols with less popularity of being the biggest and baddest are shooting much better and hitting targets faster and more accurately.( There is a minimum for bear protection IMO). What all this tells me is, there are way more guys shooting the 10mm and hitting there mark with many more bullets on target than those shooting the Bad *** Big Bore magnums. Find the right bullet for the job your using the gun for and find the gun you shoot the very best with and your the winner. Whatever that pistol is for you makes it the best choice. Most guys are lying to themselves about their choice and THATS a fact. But Hey, yours IS Bigger !!!

Gotta disagree. I will put more energy on any target at any range in 5 seconds with my wheel gun.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Gotta disagree. I will put more energy on any target at any range in 5 seconds with my wheel gun.

Like I said, there's exceptions. If your the exception, that's good. Many are kidding themselves thinking in that scenario they'd get one shot on target let alone more than that.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Here's the thing. Without pumping up and bragging about anything, I've been in this handgun shooting world, training and law enforcement qualifying staff and watching people react during high stress drills most of my life. Those weren't even when their lives depended on it. It's not a debate. It's not a question if people can or cannot do it. It's a fact that most cannot do what needs to be done with that big of a pistol in a scenario like a bear charge/attack. Again, there are exceptions. The non-exceptions will be lucky at best having a pistol they can't control and use effectively during something so critical if they make it out alive.

 

[memtb]

VLD Pilot, The primary goal is not attempting to shoot tiny, multiple round groups. If you are provided the opportunity to accomplish that, with either a wheel gun or a semi-auto.....you will be answering some very strongly worded questions by the G&F as well as a Prosecuting Attorney. In most zip codes you must "prove" that your life and limb where in danger. It is very possible that, if you are able to put multiple rounds on target.....it may be determined that it was an unjustified shooting! When you decide to shoot a grizzly, you are straddling a very narrow line, "drawn by someone that wasn't there", as to whether it is a justified shoot or not! If deemed "unjustified".....it will be very expensive lesson and likely years of lost hunting privileges.

Personally, I hope not to be put into a situation where I must make that split second decision. I also hope that I have enough composure to wait until a vital zone miss is unlikely. Hence the reasoning for greater horse power, greater bullet mass..... not relying upon several shots poorly placed shots to equal one very effective shot. Then, assuming I survive, once the forensic work is completed.....it's classified as a good shoot! memtb

 

[Pdvdh]

VLD Pilot,
Are you trying to convince yourself you've got it right?
I know a retired law enforcement officer with 32yrs on the job. Was a weapons instructor. He's faced down a mumber of brown bear, and his preference is .458 Win Mag.
If he's solely carrying a side arm, which he rarely does, it's a .475 Limbaugh or a 480 Ruger, both revolvers of course, because a semi-auto with his loads would explode.
Heavy hard cast lead bullets that will just about penetrate the full length of the biggest brown bear.

 

[sea2summit]

Like I said, there's exceptions. If your the exception, that's good. Many are kidding themselves thinking in that scenario they'd get one shot on target let alone more than that.

Exactly! So one shot, maybe two. Want to have lots of energy or not so much energy. No hate, just facts

 

[sea2summit]

Here's the thing. Without pumping up and bragging about anything, I've been in this handgun shooting world, training and law enforcement qualifying staff and watching people react during high stress drills most of my life. Those weren't even when their lives depended on it. It's not a debate. It's not a question if people can or cannot do it. It's a fact that most cannot do what needs to be done with that big of a pistol in a scenario like a bear charge/attack. Again, there are exceptions. The non-exceptions will be lucky at best having a pistol they can't control and use effectively during something so critical if they make it out alive.

Very true. And it's scary how many people say "tap, rack, back" but have never actually executed even such a basic drill against a clock to see where they stand under the most basic of time pressures and trust it to solve all their malfunction problems.

 

[VLD Pilot]

VLD Pilot,
Are you trying to convince yourself you've got it right?
I know a retired law enforcement officer with 32yrs on the job. Was a weapons instructor. He's faced down a mumber of brown bear, and his preference is .458 Win Mag.
If he's solely carrying a side arm, which he rarely does, it's a .475 Limbaugh or a 480 Ruger, both revolvers of course, because a semi-auto with his loads would explode.
Heavy hard cast lead bullets that will just about penetrate the full length of the biggest brown bear.

No I'm positive I've got it right. At least for me I do. I can't and am not trying to convince anyone on any particular choice of sidearms. Only trying to convince anyone reading this site to carry what they shoot absolutely the best that's the most potent they can shoot well. Period. Law enforcement careers mean nothing as many don't even shoot guns outside their jobs. The exception is if you use that career to train, shoot and learn thru that experience what works best, it sorta makes you a better than average doing it and helping the people that want to listen and learn. There are however alot that won't ever listen or believe there's another thought process. Go big or go home I think is what many think is best. For those that have said they haven't read or heard of any cases where the non-magnum pistols have been in play during a bear encounter, google it. Surprise yourself. Another surprise, many have in fact dropped the big bore pistols to in fact carry the more controllable pistol. These include Guides, Wildlife officers and Western State residents that spend numerous hours in Bear country. You don't have to know these people for them to exist. They've had bad experiences with the big wheel guns and changed there preference. I'm out. Good luck guys. I hope nobody ever has to defend there lives with a sidearm from a Bear attack. I personally don't think it will matter what gun your carrying. I think what will matter most is where you put the bullets.

 

[Pdvdh]

The only guy I know that owns more guns than my buddy retired cop, is my brother, who happens to own a gun shop. I don't know anyone that shoots and reloads more than he does. He's normally shooting something or another every day the weather allows. Hardly an armchair expert. Hunted in the midst of brown bears for 42 years and also hunted them specifically. Related a few tales that will cause tingling down your spine, if you have a heartbeat. And I've shared a few bear tales with him that riveted his full attention.
I only mentioned him and his firearms instructor job duties, because you talked about the value of your similar law enforcement experience in helping you understand what sidearm might be best for bear defense.
Now it seems there is no significance to his LE background.

Whatever..., best wishes with your 10mm.

 

[Pdvdh]

VLD Pilot, The primary goal is not attempting to shoot tiny, multiple round groups. If you are provided the opportunity to accomplish that, with either a wheel gun or a semi-auto.....you will be answering some very strongly worded questions by the G&F as well as a Prosecuting Attorney. In most zip codes you must "prove" that your life and limb where in danger. It is very possible that, if you are able to put multiple rounds on target.....it may be determined that it was an unjustified shooting! When you decide to shoot a grizzly, you are straddling a very narrow line, "drawn by someone that wasn't there", as to whether it is a justified shoot or not! If deemed "unjustified".....it will be very expensive lesson and likely years of lost hunting privileges.

Personally, I hope not to be put into a situation where I must make that split second decision. I also hope that I have enough composure to wait until a vital zone miss is unlikely. Hence the reasoning for greater horse power, greater bullet mass..... not relying upon several shots poorly placed shots to equal one very effective shot. Then, assuming I survive, once the forensic work is completed.....it's classified as a good shoot! memtb

Remember, you've always got this going for you.
Bears can't talk.

 

[memtb]

phorwath, Very true, but our guys do a very thorough forensics investigation. If our CID was as efficient and motivated as our G&F ....we'd have more drug and violent crime convictions! memtb

 

[Deleted member 115374]

I almost went 460, but ended up with the Casull. The muzzle blast is worse than the recoil. I'd only shoot it without earplugs to save life & limb. Because I think it would leave me deaf.

Yea, the downside is the noise for sure. Plugs and Muffs for practice.

 

[VLD Pilot]

The only guy I know that owns more guns than my buddy retired cop, is my brother, who happens to own a gun shop. I don't know anyone that shoots and reloads more than he does. He's normally shooting something or another every day the weather allows. Hardly an armchair expert. Hunted in the midst of brown bears for 42 years and also hunted them specifically. Related a few tales that will cause tingling down your spine, if you have a heartbeat. And I've shared a few bear tales with him that riveted his full attention.
I only mentioned him and his firearms instructor job duties, because you talked about the value of your similar law enforcement experience in helping you understand what sidearm might be best for bear defense.
Now it seems there is no significance to his LE background.

Whatever..., best wishes with your 10mm.

I think if you read my post closely, you'd read it differently. My law enforcement job did not necessarily give me that experience. It was being an instructor and training the staff I worked with that did that. Many of my LE partners never even handled guns outside their 8-12 hour shifts. If I hadn't been a trainer, I wouldn't have had the experience of the lessons I learned while shooting while under stress and in timed scenarios. That training job was a choice I made and isn't part of being in LE. I did both for 22 years of the 35 I was in. My meaning wasn't that LE itself gave me the training. It was those years as a trainer, training various people and watching their reactions and actions to all those scenarios. Either way, like I said, you can't teach people anything they don't want to learn. Some have all the answers.

 

[CoachChris]

Thanks Wlfdog.

You're welcome