With good stout bear bullets, that's pretty close to an ideal bear defense carry sidearm. I'd let him lead the way down the bear trails while fishing!
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Side Arm for Grizzly Country
- Thread starter Bang4theBuck
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rooster740
Well-Known Member
My last bit of advice for this thread is you need not specifically train at a certain distance other then smell bears breathe range. I have personally seen a human beat a bear with a loaded pistol!
You better have your weapon of choice handy, you better be familiar with how it operates, and you better be able to maintain control while the fuzzy hurricane initially hits, because you have a few seconds when it pauses to keep from getting a ride in a helicopter or evidence bags.
You better have your weapon of choice handy, you better be familiar with how it operates, and you better be able to maintain control while the fuzzy hurricane initially hits, because you have a few seconds when it pauses to keep from getting a ride in a helicopter or evidence bags.
Murphy's Law!
WiscGunner
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2016
- Messages
- 321
In my opinion, it seems to me, this thread is really covering 2 different debates. 1) semi-auto or revolver 2) how light of a cartridge can I use.
Debate #1
MUZZLE PRESS
The biggest difference is a revolver can be fired with the muzzle pressed into the attacker. Semi-autos can easily be made to do this too but the edge goes to revolvers.
AMMO SELECTION (variety)
Revolvers have less feeding issues with different ammo. Anyone going into the woods, combat, competition, etc with untested ammo (in any firearm) is an idiot. +1 revolver
RELIABILITY
Revolvers fail from dust and dirt and really are no different than semi-autos as a class in this regard. Some models of revolvers are NOT reliable when dirty just like some models of semi-autos aren't reliable when dirty. Revolvers get out of time, jam with dirt, freeze up when cold in wet conditions, and get bent from hot loads. Revolvers are not fool proof. It is up to the carrier to choose a model of either pistol or revolver that is reliable in dust, sand, water, mud and freezing tempts. There are many tests on this and of course if our lives depend upon these tools we will test this ourselves instead of trusting our holster queens and limit use of "expensive" ammo. Both ammo and firearm are disposable and should be treated as such. TIE
Debate #2
CALIBER OF CHOICE
All of us, regardless of the length of this thread, choose the smallest caliber we are comfortable shooting a bear with. Period.
DIAMETER
For those with semi autos, the 10 mm seems to be a very popular choice for this as an off-the-shelf option. For the wheel gun guys, the 44 magnum seems to be the smallest cartridge people are confident with, hence its popularity.
If larger diameter is what is important then why would anyone settle for a .44? If size really mattered, why not carry the largest? .600 Nitro seems like the ticket.
PENETRATION
If penetration is what is important to stop grizzly bears by reaching the brain or the spinal cord then penetration is what should be measured. Bullet selection drastically changes this measure for every cartridge as well as powder charge. A good 9mm is way better than a poor .44
CAPACITY
If capacity of bullets isn't important, why not carrie Thompson Contenders chambered in rifle cartridges? If capacity is important, then why aren't we all carrying KelTec PMR30 .22mag pistols with 30rnd
capacity?
At the end of the day, we each make a giant compromise on effectiveness with what we choose for bears protections.
I highly recommend anyone going into bear country to test their ammo. I highly recommend they throw their firearm in mud and sand and wet into a freezer to test the mechanism. And I highly recommend they practice applicable drills for bear country. Shoot "movers" Charging at the shooter from common brush distances. Shoot without sites. Include drawing from the holster WHILE wearing hunting gear. Don't be afraid to look like a fool wearing a bino harness and winter gloves at the gun range because I think we can all agree a bear is not going to wait for us to get ready.
Bear spray is an entirely different discussion full of misrepresented data and poor application that should be reserved for a different thread.
Debate #1
MUZZLE PRESS
The biggest difference is a revolver can be fired with the muzzle pressed into the attacker. Semi-autos can easily be made to do this too but the edge goes to revolvers.
AMMO SELECTION (variety)
Revolvers have less feeding issues with different ammo. Anyone going into the woods, combat, competition, etc with untested ammo (in any firearm) is an idiot. +1 revolver
RELIABILITY
Revolvers fail from dust and dirt and really are no different than semi-autos as a class in this regard. Some models of revolvers are NOT reliable when dirty just like some models of semi-autos aren't reliable when dirty. Revolvers get out of time, jam with dirt, freeze up when cold in wet conditions, and get bent from hot loads. Revolvers are not fool proof. It is up to the carrier to choose a model of either pistol or revolver that is reliable in dust, sand, water, mud and freezing tempts. There are many tests on this and of course if our lives depend upon these tools we will test this ourselves instead of trusting our holster queens and limit use of "expensive" ammo. Both ammo and firearm are disposable and should be treated as such. TIE
Debate #2
CALIBER OF CHOICE
All of us, regardless of the length of this thread, choose the smallest caliber we are comfortable shooting a bear with. Period.
DIAMETER
For those with semi autos, the 10 mm seems to be a very popular choice for this as an off-the-shelf option. For the wheel gun guys, the 44 magnum seems to be the smallest cartridge people are confident with, hence its popularity.
If larger diameter is what is important then why would anyone settle for a .44? If size really mattered, why not carry the largest? .600 Nitro seems like the ticket.
PENETRATION
If penetration is what is important to stop grizzly bears by reaching the brain or the spinal cord then penetration is what should be measured. Bullet selection drastically changes this measure for every cartridge as well as powder charge. A good 9mm is way better than a poor .44
CAPACITY
If capacity of bullets isn't important, why not carrie Thompson Contenders chambered in rifle cartridges? If capacity is important, then why aren't we all carrying KelTec PMR30 .22mag pistols with 30rnd
capacity?
At the end of the day, we each make a giant compromise on effectiveness with what we choose for bears protections.
I highly recommend anyone going into bear country to test their ammo. I highly recommend they throw their firearm in mud and sand and wet into a freezer to test the mechanism. And I highly recommend they practice applicable drills for bear country. Shoot "movers" Charging at the shooter from common brush distances. Shoot without sites. Include drawing from the holster WHILE wearing hunting gear. Don't be afraid to look like a fool wearing a bino harness and winter gloves at the gun range because I think we can all agree a bear is not going to wait for us to get ready.
Bear spray is an entirely different discussion full of misrepresented data and poor application that should be reserved for a different thread.
sea2summit
Well-Known Member
On what data/experience do you base this?
D
Deleted member 115374
Guest
Interesting article, I saw where the suit was dismissed, then reinstated with an appeal. Jury is still out on that one. Previous post, not sure where the pics came from. They could be legit malfunctions, however my money is on people that are handloading that shouldn't be or lack of maintenance. I don't know if there is a gun out there that hasn't malfunctioned at some point, whether it be worn out firing pin, factory defect or operator error etc.. My point on the wheel gun vs semi-auto is this - I don't have to worry about the gas operated action failing for whatever reason when I need it to work, too many moving parts have to work under conditions that might include freezing rain and snow, dirt, pine needles etc.. In addition to that my confidence level in putting the rounds where they need to be is good with the revolver and terrible with the semi-auto. I have had my safeties freeze in the safe position on a couple of my rifles as well as the bolt freeze closed while elk hunting in a snowstorm then have a sudden drop in temperature. For me it comes down to less moving parts, ie: one less thing to go wrong when I need everything to go right. Been there done that.
Product liability case against Smith & Wesson reinstated on appeal
A federal court should have admitted a plaintiff expert’s testimony, even though it contradicted the plaintiff’s own testimony regarding the circumstances of his accident, says a federal appeals court.www.businessinsurance.com
Too bad there isn't a way to add a poll to this thread. Simple questions like:
Have you been within 100 yards of a bear in the wild on foot?
Have you shot gun and or cartridge you are recommending?
Have you carried said sidearm for 5-20 miles in a day while hunting or hiking?
Have you ever had a bear give you "that look" during an encounter?
I have had a fair amount of black bear encounters on foot, all of which the bear didn't run off as fast as I would have liked but none of the bears were aggressive either. The grizzlies I've seen have been around Yellowstone area and in a vehicle or close to a vehicle. When I was quartering my elk in dark timber this year I looked up a few times at how thick it was and was just glad I only had seen sign of a small black bear and that I didn't have to worry about grizzlies.
Whatever you carry make sure you can shoot it and you have bullets that will penetrate.
Have you been within 100 yards of a bear in the wild on foot?
Have you shot gun and or cartridge you are recommending?
Have you carried said sidearm for 5-20 miles in a day while hunting or hiking?
Have you ever had a bear give you "that look" during an encounter?
I have had a fair amount of black bear encounters on foot, all of which the bear didn't run off as fast as I would have liked but none of the bears were aggressive either. The grizzlies I've seen have been around Yellowstone area and in a vehicle or close to a vehicle. When I was quartering my elk in dark timber this year I looked up a few times at how thick it was and was just glad I only had seen sign of a small black bear and that I didn't have to worry about grizzlies.
Whatever you carry make sure you can shoot it and you have bullets that will penetrate.
DirectDrive
Well-Known Member
sea2summit
Well-Known Member
Never 20 miles in a day if that's the question, otherwise all yes. Also legally dealt with multiple grizzlies and I'm not sure how many blacks. Worst encounter I was separated from my shotgun by clients between me and the boat but I was between them and the bear so catch 22, that's when I started carrying a pistol.
sea2summit
Well-Known Member
Reads like it's full of poop and personal opinions.It reads like it is based on Man Law.
Ever hear of it ?
Never had a failure to function with my revolvers.
Can't say the same for my pistols.
Others I know with both types have expressed the same experience.
And after 37yrs of repair work as a practicing gunsmith, my brother says semi-autos are way more prone to function failures.
Can't say the same for my pistols.
Others I know with both types have expressed the same experience.
And after 37yrs of repair work as a practicing gunsmith, my brother says semi-autos are way more prone to function failures.
Don't ever think black bears can't be aggressive. I think I read an article were more people are injured and killed a year in Alaska than Brown- Grizzly bears.
When I worked in S.E Alaska on Dall Island in 1989 the surveyors carried pistols an shotguns because of black bears. I had to run one off one time with my chainsaw running wide open at the bear to get it to leave, I trust none of them ive been charged twice by black bears.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Just a couple of the trusted bear country sidearms. Ya, there revolvers !!! Never had one Glock fail either. Owned them since the early 90s.
Attachments
When I was young and dump.Up in POW I would trot in with 45# bait to site for archery,naked,because so hard to get pistol threw Canada.Black bear archery,then one day I ran right up on one biggy sleeping on the bait, more cautious after that.Ive got in on large black bears puffing and swatting the ground.
