Side Arm for Grizzly Country

[sea2summit]

Great info there. Thanks for sharing

You asked me, I don't study the best 10mm rounds other than occasionally looking up posted data to see they're still only about 3/4 power of a solid .44 load on their best day equivalent barrel length comparison. Sorry I can't be more helpful with the 10mm for you.

 

[memtb]

If it's purpose is solely for self-defence, while fishing, camp chores ect., having a holstered handgun is preferable to wrangling a long gun. If one is merely hiking or similar, a shouldered or in- hand long gun is far superior to a handgun....IMO. memtb

 

[VLD Pilot]

You asked me, I don't study the best 10mm rounds other than occasionally looking up posted data to see they're still only about 3/4 power of a solid .44 load on their best day equivalent barrel length comparison. Sorry I can't be more helpful with the 10mm for you.

No apology necessary. I'm fairly informed with all the 10mm load data needed. Your correct about the power difference also. Owning both, I'm schooled in all the most powerful and accurate loads for both of my pistols in those cartridges. My choice would also be a big bore wheel gun if I could shoot it as confidently as I do my 10mm. After years of shooting both, it's just not ever going to happen. Everyone has to make that decision. I'm positive most and for sure many decide on the big bores not because they have trained with them and concluded that they are very proficient with it but because it's a Bad *** pistol and one that has to be the best for big bear defense. That's just not true. Training and shooting time with a pistol is the only way to know. 35 years in LE and training with various pistols is how I know this simple rule. Practice and training is paramount. Shooting my 44 mag and 460 S&W, I just can't put enough rounds on target in stressed scenarios to give me confidence. Fast moving targets coming straight at me tells me that. With the G20, I can put half a 20rd magazine in a kill zone easily even in a stressed timed shooting scenario. I'm not recommending my preferred pistol, I only know it's what I carry and shoot best with the most confidence. I also don't criticize guys for carrying Big wheel guns for woods defense carry. They obviously can handle and shoot them much better and more accurately than I can putting alot more rounds on target than I can. That's awesome. There awesome shooters and marksman. It's just not me. I must be a slow learner in firearms handling and use. Forums are about information, opinions and facts. I put all three in this last post. If it helps anyone, great, it's why I read and respond in them. Good luck and stay safe in Bear country.

 

[D.Camilleri]

I spend a lot of time hunting in griz country. I have been carrying a Taurus Raging Bull 454 for over 20 years. I now carry it in a alaskan cross chest holster. This year on my high country deer hunt I opted to carry my glock 20 10mm based on a couple of facts. First, it was Sept, and second the griz density where I was hunting shouldn't be excessive and second, I didn't want the added weight of the 454 while hiking in steep country. I packed my glock 20 in a alaskan cross draw holster loaded with extreme defender 150 grain solids and an extra magazine. I due my best to keep my rifle very close to me when I am field dressing. I think it is very important to have a handgun when hunting horseback, because you never know what can happen and you could be on your butt and the horse could be running off with your rifle, trust me, I have been there!

Fast forward to elk season in November, much higher griz concentration, bears are on the aggressive feed mode before winter, 454 is on my person no questions asked, 10 mm in the truck. While field dressing my elk, my head is on a swivel, my rifle is close by, my safety strap is removed from the hammer on the 454 and I go to work, oh and I should add that my carry rifle is a 338 rum with heavy bullets equals bad bear medicine.

 

[memtb]

D.Camilleri, How'd your hunt go in Grass Creek? Inquiring minds! memtb

 

[D.Camilleri]

Hard hunting, too warm, full moon. Finally killed a medium 5x5 bull in a narrow strip of blm. Also, numerous fresh griz tracks, lol.

 

[sea2summit]

No apology necessary. I'm fairly informed with all the 10mm load data needed. Your correct about the power difference also. Owning both, I'm schooled in all the most powerful and accurate loads for both of my pistols in those cartridges. My choice would also be a big bore wheel gun if I could shoot it as confidently as I do my 10mm. After years of shooting both, it's just not ever going to happen. Everyone has to make that decision. I'm positive most and for sure many decide on the big bores not because they have trained with them and concluded that they are very proficient with it but because it's a Bad *** pistol and one that has to be the best for big bear defense. That's just not true. Training and shooting time with a pistol is the only way to know. 35 years in LE and training with various pistols is how I know this simple rule. Practice and training is paramount. Shooting my 44 mag and 460 S&W, I just can't put enough rounds on target in stressed scenarios to give me confidence. Fast moving targets coming straight at me tells me that. With the G20, I can put half a 20rd magazine in a kill zone easily even in a stressed timed shooting scenario. I'm not recommending my preferred pistol, I only know it's what I carry and shoot best with the most confidence. I also don't criticize guys for carrying Big wheel guns for woods defense carry. They obviously can handle and shoot them much better and more accurately than I can putting alot more rounds on target than I can. That's awesome. There awesome shooters and marksman. It's just not me. I must be a slow learner in firearms handling and use. Forums are about information, opinions and facts. I put all three in this last post. If it helps anyone, great, it's why I read and respond in them. Good luck and stay safe in Bear country.

I concur with all of the above. And here's exactly where my issue comes in, the action.

When home I have my Benelli Super 90 by the door. 8 rounds, super light, semi auto, 12 ga. I have shot/handled it since '91 and it is still my go to when I shoot 3-Gun. At the house it stays clean and doesn't need any maintenance other than routine stuff. Now, when I put the sleeping bag in the backpack and head out, in my hands is an 870. Heavier and slower than the super 90 but after beating alders all day in the rain I know it will shoot just as reliably as it did that morning. Environment impacts my decision even though I'm probably 20-30% faster and probably slightly more accurate with the Benelli.

I think (that means my opinion which is for your consideration not to tell anyone they are all jacked up) too many people focus on what they shoot the best over how that firearm will act in the woods in bad conditions (two of three guys I know that shot bears in self defense shot at least one round from the ground do to various reasons). I'd rather have the reliability of knowing I'll get six rounds out if I have time than hoping for all 20 to work because I landed face down in 3' of muskeg from tripping over my own feet trying to face the freight train headed for me. And if you have enough time to shoot a bear 20 times, did you really need to shoot it or did you just get scared?

I think I already said this in this thread but I had lots of friends that carried .357 and we had the same arguments back then about capabilities/speed/accuracy back then. I'm probably getting close to needing to reconsider something easier on the wrists...or investing in brakes But I'm pretty hard headed so I'll probably keep the .44 in the bag of tricks.

 

[sea2summit]

I spend a lot of time hunting in griz country. I have been carrying a Taurus Raging Bull 454 for over 20 years. I now carry it in a alaskan cross chest holster. This year on my high country deer hunt I opted to carry my glock 20 10mm based on a couple of facts. First, it was Sept, and second the griz density where I was hunting shouldn't be excessive and second, I didn't want the added weight of the 454 while hiking in steep country. I packed my glock 20 in a alaskan cross draw holster loaded with extreme defender 150 grain solids and an extra magazine. I due my best to keep my rifle very close to me when I am field dressing. I think it is very important to have a handgun when hunting horseback, because you never know what can happen and you could be on your butt and the horse could be running off with your rifle, trust me, I have been there!

Fast forward to elk season in November, much higher griz concentration, bears are on the aggressive feed mode before winter, 454 is on my person no questions asked, 10 mm in the truck. While field dressing my elk, my head is on a swivel, my rifle is close by, my safety strap is removed from the hammer on the 454 and I go to work, oh and I should add that my carry rifle is a 338 rum with heavy bullets equals bad bear medicine.

Great post.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

I don't have experience with shooting grizzly bears, so my post just talks about my sons revolver. He bought a 500S&W handgun and I was amazed at the lack of jump (ported) and deadly power of one when shooting it. He carried it the other day when we went late season deer scouting, don't care for the big heavy bullets but with light for round loads it can be shot pretty fast and stay on target. Its a heavier gun and the porting helps recoil and muzzle jump was quite similiar to my 44magnum revolver. I believe we were using 350gr rounds and they shot thru 8" pieces of rock maple firewood with ease and other smaller pieces behind them. I doubt it would kill a charging bear but it would sure make some difference if you just put two in the head chest area. Just saying....it was the most powerful handgun I've fired at this point and I used to use a 30-30 TC contender for metallic 200meter shooting.

 

[memtb]

D.Camillera, The few days we spent up there, hot (mid to upper 60's), dry, and with a multitude of other issues..... we called it quits! Really looked forward to this years hunt....pretty much a minor disaster from the get-go! Glad that you got yourself a bull....even if he wasn't a B&C bull! Congrats! memtb

 

[Pdvdh]

I concur with all of the above. And here's exactly where my issue comes in, the action.

When home I have my Benelli Super 90 by the door. 8 rounds, super light, semi auto, 12 ga. I have shot/handled it since '91 and it is still my go to when I shoot 3-Gun. At the house it stays clean and doesn't need any maintenance other than routine stuff. Now, when I put the sleeping bag in the backpack and head out, in my hands is an 870. Heavier and slower than the super 90 but after beating alders all day in the rain I know it will shoot just as reliably as it did that morning. Environment impacts my decision even though I'm probably 20-30% faster and probably slightly more accurate with the Benelli.

I think (that means my opinion which is for your consideration not to tell anyone they are all jacked up) too many people focus on what they shoot the best over how that firearm will act in the woods in bad conditions (two of three guys I know that shot bears in self defense shot at least one round from the ground do to various reasons). I'd rather have the reliability of knowing I'll get six rounds out if I have time than hoping for all 20 to work because I landed face down in 3' of muskeg from tripping over my own feet trying to face the freight train headed for me. And if you have enough time to shoot a bear 20 times, did you really need to shoot it or did you just get scared?

I think I already said this in this thread but I had lots of friends that carried .357 and we had the same arguments back then about capabilities/speed/accuracy back then. I'm probably getting close to needing to reconsider something easier on the wrists...or investing in brakes But I'm pretty hard headed so I'll probably keep the .44 in the bag of tricks.

Yup, yup, and yup.
When I'm camped in bear territory, which is any time I'm camped anywhere I travel to in Alaska, I can't always baby my firearms. Sometimes I can barely stay warm, let alone dry.
As stated earlier, if bears carried AR's, I 'd carry equivalent firepower, and hope my semi-auto performed. For the same reasons, the military and law enforcement now commonly carry semi-autos. Before semi-autos became common in use, law enforcement competed just fine with 6-shot revolvers. Concluding semi-autos are just as reliable as revolvers because law enforcement and the military now most commonly issue them - not so. They issue them because their opponents are now carrying semi-auto weapons with 30 round mags. After the FBI had two agents killed and 5 wounded by a suicidal trained ranger maniac with a Ruger semi-auto .223 and multiple 30 round mags, while the FBI agents were only issued revolvers and low capacity semi-auto pistols. The maniac walked up and killed two of the agents while they were trying to reload their pistols.

Bears don't carry guns. A revolver is most reliable under compromised environments, and 6 shots is sufficient. The first couple are the ones that will determine how badly it turns out. Unless you're carrying a 10mm! Then you might need a 2nd mag!

Ooops... I forgot, we're looking for this thread to end in agreement.

 

[JamT]

Most grizzly attacks happen at a moments notice without time to react at all. You won't be in a situation that you're in a shootout with a griz and able to dump a magazine at him. A 10mm may be lighter and hold more rounds but given you may have time for one or two shots before it made contact, the heavier the better.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I concur with all of the above. And here's exactly where my issue comes in, the action.

When home I have my Benelli Super 90 by the door. 8 rounds, super light, semi auto, 12 ga. I have shot/handled it since '91 and it is still my go to when I shoot 3-Gun. At the house it stays clean and doesn't need any maintenance other than routine stuff. Now, when I put the sleeping bag in the backpack and head out, in my hands is an 870. Heavier and slower than the super 90 but after beating alders all day in the rain I know it will shoot just as reliably as it did that morning. Environment impacts my decision even though I'm probably 20-30% faster and probably slightly more accurate with the Benelli.

I think (that means my opinion which is for your consideration not to tell anyone they are all jacked up) too many people focus on what they shoot the best over how that firearm will act in the woods in bad conditions (two of three guys I know that shot bears in self defense shot at least one round from the ground do to various reasons). I'd rather have the reliability of knowing I'll get six rounds out if I have time than hoping for all 20 to work because I landed face down in 3' of muskeg from tripping over my own feet trying to face the freight train headed for me. And if you have enough time to shoot a bear 20 times, did you really need to shoot it or did you just get scared?

I think I already said this in this thread but I had lots of friends that carried .357 and we had the same arguments back then about capabilities/speed/accuracy back then. I'm probably getting close to needing to reconsider something easier on the wrists...or investing in brakes But I'm pretty hard headed so I'll probably keep the .44 in the bag of tricks.

Shoot whatever you shoot the most accurate and have the most confidence in. Speed and accuracy comes with time behind the gun. Accuracy Firepower means the most to me personally. Especially when I know the round will penetrate the skull of any aggressor wanting to do harm. Shut the brain off and the fights over. Sounds like your prepared and confident. That's all that matters.

 

[DesertDweller62]

Most of my Alaska guide buddies now carry 10mm Glocks... they gave up thier 6 shot 44 Mag's for the 15 shot Glock. They also use chest holsters for quick access even with a pack on.

Using a pistol in a Grizz attack is the last thing you want to have to do... I NEVER get farther from my rifle than an arms length when those big brown critters are a possibility. But the best advise is to do all you can to avoid a bear encounter... but always be prepared for one. DD62