goodgrouper
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Scenar bullet failure! No really, it was bad.
- Thread starter goodgrouper
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CPorter
Active Member
Like one of the other posters mentioned dry materials don't cause copper tipped bullets to mushroom very well. Also at 1000 yard that bullet is probably travelling around 1250 fps so. Your bullet deformed quite a bit though and would have produced a large wound channel in doing so. Maybe not enough penetration for larger game to ensure damage to the vitals
jb1000br
Official LRH Sponsor
GG -- soak the paper overnight...submerged...it takes awhile to get them totally soaked.
JB
JB
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Will do. Got them soaking as we speak! We'll give her a go Friday (weather permitting).
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is what happened I think. Incidentally, the velo of this bullet at 1000 yards is actually about 1984 feet per second. Not bad huh?
Mysticplayer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,459
Another simple test is to shoot water filled gallon milk jugs at distance.
How's that for hydrostatic force?
If the jugs break up, then the bullets are expanding or tumbling violently enough to cause adequate boiler room destruction. If the bullets pencil through, probably not a good choice.
If that big/heavy a bullet is arriving that fast, the jug should break up quite convincingly.
Jerry
How's that for hydrostatic force?
If the jugs break up, then the bullets are expanding or tumbling violently enough to cause adequate boiler room destruction. If the bullets pencil through, probably not a good choice.
If that big/heavy a bullet is arriving that fast, the jug should break up quite convincingly.
Jerry
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Agreed. That 250 would spray water all over the place for sure!
I have tried this method before and have found it very hard to keep the bullet going straight through all the jugs so that the bullet could be recovered. It usually veers off one way or another and can't be found. Got any way of keeping it straight or of finding the bullet?
I have tried this method before and have found it very hard to keep the bullet going straight through all the jugs so that the bullet could be recovered. It usually veers off one way or another and can't be found. Got any way of keeping it straight or of finding the bullet?
Mysticplayer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2001
- Messages
- 1,459
I don't bother recovering bullets. If the first two jugs go splat, the animal is dead. That is all I care about.
Odds are the bullet will travel straight if it is stabilized enough or doesn't tumble.
you could build a bullet trap with lots of newspaper in boxes around the jugs to catch it going sideways. More work then I am into.
I want two jugs breaking up and a third seriously damaged. That is good bullet performance in my books. Any bullet that has passed this test has worked great on broadside/quartering shots on mulies.
Jerry
Odds are the bullet will travel straight if it is stabilized enough or doesn't tumble.
you could build a bullet trap with lots of newspaper in boxes around the jugs to catch it going sideways. More work then I am into.
I want two jugs breaking up and a third seriously damaged. That is good bullet performance in my books. Any bullet that has passed this test has worked great on broadside/quartering shots on mulies.
Jerry
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Re: Scenar bullet failure! No really, it was bad AGAIN!
Ok. Tested the Scenars in soaking wet phonebooks at 1000 yards. Can you say, "strike two"! Wet phonebooks made no difference on performance whatsoever. Penetration depth was identical to dry and wound channels still indicated tumbling.
Here is the setup. Thanks to 7mmrhb for humoring a very sick kid that pesters the hell out of him constantly. Making someone transport 200 pounds of sopping wet newspaper has got to be at least a misdemeanor in most states!
Here is a pic of an additional test. 3 boxes full of water bags made of heavy duty plastic. The scenar went through them without even so much as a hickup.
Back of the water boxes. NOt exactly a huge exit hole!
A pic of the target box with the bullet holes highlighted. 3 bullets made a direct hit with one exiting and the others staying inside.
Here is a pic of the one exit hole that went through 2 feet of wet phonebooks. The bullet was found 10 feet behind the box and sitting on top of the dirt.
Pic of one of the bullet tips as it was found in the newspaper.
And the three bullet failures. Notice the "spitwad" in the cone of the bullet tip. This was how it was found. I didn't cut it off.
And here is a big whoops! I can't repeat what I said when I saw this one. That 250 grain Lapua is so stinking tough that it penetrated a 3/8" armor plate steel at 100 yards! Never in a million years would I have bet that this bullet was that tough. This gong has been hit with just about every bullet/speed combo known to man and at every distance and has never suffered a penetration EVER! THis was the most amazing thing of the whole day. This is as tough as steel gets and it cut through it like nothing and kept on going!! Uncle B, unfortunately this was the new 22" so it looks like I just bought it from you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
And here is the hole AFTER it went through the gong. I rested the gong up against a telephone pole and it looks like the bullet went at least <font color="red">6" into it!! </font> Unbelievable!! I guess if I ever need to kill an Abrams tank I'll have a bullet already picked out!
So today was strike two. Tomorrow I will be killing a bovine at 1000 yards with this bullet and if it performs like this one more time, it is out!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Ok. Tested the Scenars in soaking wet phonebooks at 1000 yards. Can you say, "strike two"! Wet phonebooks made no difference on performance whatsoever. Penetration depth was identical to dry and wound channels still indicated tumbling.
Here is the setup. Thanks to 7mmrhb for humoring a very sick kid that pesters the hell out of him constantly. Making someone transport 200 pounds of sopping wet newspaper has got to be at least a misdemeanor in most states!
Here is a pic of an additional test. 3 boxes full of water bags made of heavy duty plastic. The scenar went through them without even so much as a hickup.
Back of the water boxes. NOt exactly a huge exit hole!
A pic of the target box with the bullet holes highlighted. 3 bullets made a direct hit with one exiting and the others staying inside.
Here is a pic of the one exit hole that went through 2 feet of wet phonebooks. The bullet was found 10 feet behind the box and sitting on top of the dirt.
Pic of one of the bullet tips as it was found in the newspaper.
And the three bullet failures. Notice the "spitwad" in the cone of the bullet tip. This was how it was found. I didn't cut it off.
And here is a big whoops! I can't repeat what I said when I saw this one. That 250 grain Lapua is so stinking tough that it penetrated a 3/8" armor plate steel at 100 yards! Never in a million years would I have bet that this bullet was that tough. This gong has been hit with just about every bullet/speed combo known to man and at every distance and has never suffered a penetration EVER! THis was the most amazing thing of the whole day. This is as tough as steel gets and it cut through it like nothing and kept on going!! Uncle B, unfortunately this was the new 22" so it looks like I just bought it from you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
And here is the hole AFTER it went through the gong. I rested the gong up against a telephone pole and it looks like the bullet went at least <font color="red">6" into it!! </font> Unbelievable!! I guess if I ever need to kill an Abrams tank I'll have a bullet already picked out!
So today was strike two. Tomorrow I will be killing a bovine at 1000 yards with this bullet and if it performs like this one more time, it is out!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Re: Scenar bullet failure again and ? MK\'s
The cow thing fell through so I
set up the phonebooks again today at 500 yards and they were dry. Fired a bunch of 250 grian Sierra Mk's and several 250 Scenars into them with mixed results.
The Lapuas did the same familiar banana shaped FMJ garbage if they didn't go all the way through.
The Sierra MK's were half and half. Some went through all the way and some stayed in. Wound channels were slightly larger with the MK's but not by much. Penetration was similiar and the recovered bullet didn't weigh much.
At best, I would say the MK's performance was inconsistent which was too bad since they shot a 1.5" three shot group at 515 yards!!!
I feel they opened up adequately at 515 but I am not sold they would be ok when they slow down a bit out past 1000 yards. Perhaps more testing is in order or maybe I should just cut my losses and start working up a load for the 225 Accubonds. What do you MK hunters think? Ever seen the damage of these bullets at over 1k or found a bullet in the animal around that distance?
C'mon, what say you?
Here is a pic of the recovered scenar and Mk. The MK was the most intact one I could find. The rest zipped right on through.
And here is a pic of the box of newspapers the MK's flew through.
The cow thing fell through so I
set up the phonebooks again today at 500 yards and they were dry. Fired a bunch of 250 grian Sierra Mk's and several 250 Scenars into them with mixed results.
The Lapuas did the same familiar banana shaped FMJ garbage if they didn't go all the way through.
The Sierra MK's were half and half. Some went through all the way and some stayed in. Wound channels were slightly larger with the MK's but not by much. Penetration was similiar and the recovered bullet didn't weigh much.
At best, I would say the MK's performance was inconsistent which was too bad since they shot a 1.5" three shot group at 515 yards!!!
I feel they opened up adequately at 515 but I am not sold they would be ok when they slow down a bit out past 1000 yards. Perhaps more testing is in order or maybe I should just cut my losses and start working up a load for the 225 Accubonds. What do you MK hunters think? Ever seen the damage of these bullets at over 1k or found a bullet in the animal around that distance?
C'mon, what say you?
Here is a pic of the recovered scenar and Mk. The MK was the most intact one I could find. The rest zipped right on through.
And here is a pic of the box of newspapers the MK's flew through.
Re: Scenar bullet failure again and ? MK\'s
I feel that you need the wet paper to get a more realistic expansion test,dry paper does not give a true of an indication as wet.The wet is quite the pain for sure.You are putting forth quite an efort to insure sucess,and I am sure that in the end your sucess wil be reward enough for the effort.
Great pictures and accounts of your quest,I look forward to more. I have followed your project from the begining as I have a 338 RUM.I may follow the same path as you or maybe go for the 280 or 300 grain bullets for ranges exceeding 1000 yards,have not done much with mine as of yet.
I feel that you need the wet paper to get a more realistic expansion test,dry paper does not give a true of an indication as wet.The wet is quite the pain for sure.You are putting forth quite an efort to insure sucess,and I am sure that in the end your sucess wil be reward enough for the effort.
Great pictures and accounts of your quest,I look forward to more. I have followed your project from the begining as I have a 338 RUM.I may follow the same path as you or maybe go for the 280 or 300 grain bullets for ranges exceeding 1000 yards,have not done much with mine as of yet.
dakor
Well-Known Member
Re: Scenar bullet failure again and ? MK\'s
GG maybe you want to give the 250 GameKing a try. It has a little higer bc then the 225 Accubond and just a little less bc then the 250SMK. Just a thought.
GG maybe you want to give the 250 GameKing a try. It has a little higer bc then the 225 Accubond and just a little less bc then the 250SMK. Just a thought.
jb1000br
Official LRH Sponsor
Re: Scenar bullet failure again and ? MK\'s
RE: penetrating armor plate...
If you had it resting against the phone pole, it had no where to swing = cant absorb the hit = more likely to penetrate.
What kind or "armor plate" ?
We have hit 3/8" AR500 at 300yds with 338 lapua (250sc) and 300 (180 btip) win and it didnt touch the stuff. Lapua left about a 0.010" deep crater, almost not noticable.
100yd 6.5-284 didnt touch it either.
Guess the only other test is on meat...I love the separated nose cone shot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif kinda dissapointed for sure...
you gonna try the 300SMK? Wildcats?
JB
RE: penetrating armor plate...
If you had it resting against the phone pole, it had no where to swing = cant absorb the hit = more likely to penetrate.
What kind or "armor plate" ?
We have hit 3/8" AR500 at 300yds with 338 lapua (250sc) and 300 (180 btip) win and it didnt touch the stuff. Lapua left about a 0.010" deep crater, almost not noticable.
100yd 6.5-284 didnt touch it either.
Guess the only other test is on meat...I love the separated nose cone shot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif kinda dissapointed for sure...
you gonna try the 300SMK? Wildcats?
JB
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Re: Scenar bullet failure again and ? MK\'s
Wanna Shoot some 252 WCs. I'm gonna need some and should order sometime this month.
I'll use game kings for tuning then WCs to prep for the hunt. Should be able to spare more than 3 this go around......
I'm thinking that the 250 GameKings will be just about like the 270 130GKs. Most probably wouldn't hold together on a close shot and would shed the core on a long shot. But they were good to tune with in my 338 Win. We'll see about the RUM. However the 130 GameKings have done an outstanding job for me over the years.
Wanna Shoot some 252 WCs. I'm gonna need some and should order sometime this month.
I'll use game kings for tuning then WCs to prep for the hunt. Should be able to spare more than 3 this go around......
I'm thinking that the 250 GameKings will be just about like the 270 130GKs. Most probably wouldn't hold together on a close shot and would shed the core on a long shot. But they were good to tune with in my 338 Win. We'll see about the RUM. However the 130 GameKings have done an outstanding job for me over the years.
