Really now, what bullet?

[Michael Eichele]

I have had great performance with Ballistic Tips out to 500 yards or a little more in my 270WSM and 308. 140's in the 270 and 165's in the 308. in my 6.5x284, the 140 Hunting Bergers will get me terminal performance at 1000 yards that the Ballistic Tips in 120gr max out around 600 yards. Nosler doesn't seem to produce them in heavier weights than the 120-123gr. I think that even if they did, the shape of the BT's have a form factor that still wouldn't give the ballistic performance of the Bergers. It's probably the reason they don't offer them.IMHO

Just an FYI, Nosler does now offer a 140 BT.

 

[elkaholic]

Woods,
I haven't ruled out the Scirocco II's, I just don't believe the published BC. From what I understand the real world BC is below the threshold of where I want to be.

johnnyk,
The NBT's will never fall from grace for me. Nearly half of the animals I have killed from deer down have been with the NBT's. I bought the 6.5x284 for long range and I want high BC to make my job easier in the wind at distance. The Ballistic Tips are below my minimum for this.

Based on the input from the rest of y'all, I almost think I should load test the Amax and the Bergers and run with the one that shoots the best. Sounds like both will work, just be sure and lung 'em.

I've spent a considerable amount of time testing various bullets and have been making my own for 6 or 7 years now and have not yet found a perfect bullet for everything, because there isn't one, but there are some rules of thumb. Thinner jacketed bullets such as the Berger or A-max will normally kill quicker and more spectacularly but are also more prone to being more inconsistent as far as performing the same shot to shot when compared to heavier constructed bullets. Similar jackets with varying meplat sizes will perform differently and this is especially true if the bullet has a ballistic tip. Good examples are the Berger vs A-max. The Berger will penetrate farther before expansion takes place which is a benefit at higher velocities while the A-max will expand more easily and uniformly at lower velocities which is an advantage for extreme range. Obviously, the converse of each can be a disadvantage. B.C. always comes into play when you are talking long range for more reasons than drop and wind drift. Every bullet has a threshhold velocity for expansion to occur so a higher b.c. bullet will carry that velocity farther out and allow expansion past the range of a similarly constructed bullet of lesser b.c. Bonded bullets will begin expansion nearly as easy as non bonded (all else being equal) but will penetrate farther with less fragmentation. You can easily see making a case for all of these attributes (or flaws) as the case may be, depending on the intended game, distance etc. This is why there are soooo many arguments about which bullet is the best and also why there are so many bullets. As many have stated in the past, shot placement is more critical than anything else, but that doesn't excuse using a bullet that won't perform. I've often told people if a Nosler partition had the b.c. of a Berger, I would use them for everything. In fact, I'm trying to work on something similar to that. The best thing I have found is to TEST at the range you plan on shooting. I've been testing reduced loads which duplicate intended range velocities a lot the last few years and this can be a real eye opener! One thing that I've found is (advertised expansion velocities are almost always inflated on the low side) for any reasonable media! Another factor of note is that the smaller the diameter of the projectile, the more important the bullet construction becomes. Conversely, the more frontal area and sectional density, the more forgiving as far as killing. (common sense)..........Rich
p.s. I'm going to add a qualifier to a statement that I made concerning "heavier constructed bullets being more consistent shot to shot". This is not to suggest that they are better or worse but merely are more predictable in expansion characteristics. It is also possible to be consistently bad for the intended use. Thought I might save some unneccessary discussion there!!

 

[Greyfox]

Just an FYI, Nosler does now offer a 140 BT.

Thanks,
I checked their site and didn't see it. Only Accubond and competition bullets. BC for both are around .5. Similar design of the BT would probably be similar.

 

[cornstalker]

Have you ran the numbers of the 140 SST at 3000-3100 FPS in the 6.5? Out to 700 yards, they look pretty good. I know their not as sexy as the VLD but are more than adequete. Nosler has come out with a 140 BT which will have a much higher BC than the previous 120 grain BTs.

I have not run the numbers quite that fast. Most of my accuracy loads have been 2840 to 2950 with other bullets so far. 2840 is the velocity I usually plug in to the calculators.

It sounds as if the 130 grain Scirrocco II is pretty close to the BC of the 140 SST. Swift claims they will expand at 1700 fps.

That 140 NBT at a published .509 G1 BC looks pretty tempting. Old faithful got a BC boost....

I bought the Bergers and the Amaxes so I guess I'll try them. First hint of poor terminal performance and I'll be looking to the NBT's or Scirrocco's.

I want to thank all of you for your helpful insights.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I have not run the numbers quite that fast. Most of my accuracy loads have been 2840 to 2950 with other bullets so far. 2840 is the velocity I usually plug in to the calculators.

It sounds as if the 130 grain Scirrocco II is pretty close to the BC of the 140 SST. Swift claims they will expand at 1700 fps.

That 140 NBT at a published .509 G1 BC looks pretty tempting. Old faithful got a BC boost....

I bought the Bergers and the Amaxes so I guess I'll try them. First hint of poor terminal performance and I'll be looking to the NBT's or Scirrocco's.

I want to thank all of you for your helpful insights.

Hornady does not advertise it but I called their techs and they claimed 1600'/sec for minimum expansion. Don't know if it is true or not but seems reasonable.

 

[cornstalker]

I may be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere along the way where Topshot tested them and had expansion down into the 12's. I'll be darned if I can find it now....

ETA:

Fount it. he was talking about 225 Grain Interbonds in .338. They expanded down to 1250 fps, but expanded well and reliably down at 1400. Sorry for the side track.

 

[elkaholic]

Hornady does not advertise it but I called their techs and they claimed 1600'/sec for minimum expansion. Don't know if it is true or not but seems reasonable.

They will!.....Rich

 

[cornstalker]

I've often told people if a Nosler partition had the b.c. of a Berger, I would use them for everything. In fact, I'm trying to work on something similar to that.

Great idea. Especially if the nose was smooshy enough expand at low velocity, yet the rear core would carry it through bone. If you get it done, I am interested. You are starting with .264" prototypes, right?

 

[elkaholic]

Great idea. Especially if the nose was smooshy enough expand at low velocity, yet the rear core would carry it through bone. If you get it done, I am interested. You are starting with .264" prototypes, right?

Sorry, all I make is .308! I have the nose part down to expanding at 1300' or lower and I'm pretty sure I can get the rear to hold together. I am working on the long range accuracy part when I get more time. The b.c. would be very near my SXR bullets (slightly lower).....Rich

 

[Max Heat]

The NBT120 is the lightest one available in 7mm, the other 2 available in that caliber are 150, and 175. But if I was to go heavier, for longer range performance and/or bigger game than whitetails, I would go with the A-MAX 162 (BC = .624).

By comparison, the 7mm NBT120 BC is claimed to be .417. But the bullet I'd really like to shoot doesn't exist yet, that I know of. It would be a 6mm (maybe 6.5) bullet of the same weight (maybe even lighter), with a very thin peal-off-sabot (thin so as not to compromise accuracy), designed to be shot out of a 7mm bore.

Maybe 120gr is a bit optimistic for 6mm (.243), but even a 100gr pointed boattail bullet of that caliber will exceed .430 BC, at high velocities. That would be ideal for stuff like coyotes and chucks, maybe even LRBR. The best 120gr 6.5 bullets come in at just about .5 BC. That, coupled with a sabot that would only be need to be .25mm thick, might make it the best LRBR/varmint bullet, considering how much harder it can be driven, out of a 7mm bore.

Could THAT bullet be close to reality, or am I just dreamin?