Bullet tips melt! Now what?

[Darkker]

Remember the work done long ago by Harold Vaughn. Tips really don't mean much to BC.
Not that they don't mean squat, just only slightly more than nothing.

The "melty tip" BS is a diversion to distract you.
Using a Single G1 for these types of bullets is not a good description of how it actually flies. And while not as bad as Nosler's numbers, long been known that Hornady is.... optimistic in their numbers.

It's about the ogive and tail angle.
The A-max series is rather old on the whole.
Take Litz' tested G7, on the 30-cal 208gr Amax; which is newer.
Run it in your calc at a Hodgdon MAX in the 300 WM. Test against the 212gr ELD-X at the same velocity.
At 1K the difference is a few tenths of a mill, exactly what you would expect to see from Tipping a regular HPBT match bullet.
Now take both of those bullets, and fire them at the 30-06 max velocity. The difference is gone.

Distract people with tales of woe and irrelevant tip non-sense, then raise prices 30%
**** fine marketing!!

 

[Engineering101]

bravo4

All your points are valid. If you had been the one that made my post, I could have been the one that made your post so I get what you are saying.

To put this in perspective, no the sky is not falling. You are right that these Delrin tipped bullets work at long range. The problem is that the tips will melt and the BC will degrade somewhere past 400 yards but you won't know where. If you are at high altitude on a cold day, the range where this happens will be further. There is some range at which the tips will always be melted no matter the altitude or temperature. Past that range you will get consistently degraded BCs. So for true long range shots these bullets should be consistent. It is that in between area which seems to be 400 to 600 yards where they won't behave consistently. And when shooting at a prairie dog on all fours at 500 yards you don't have 4 inches to play with so while this is not a catastrophe it is an issue if you want all the accuracy you can get which I do. By the way, I have some bullets for sale. Interested?

 

[Wedgy]

Suddenly I don't feel so bad about my copper bullets we have to shoot here in CA, they won't melt until around 1500 degrees !

 

[KillerBee]

Having a hard time believing that Nosler would put out a bullet that did not perform as per their specs. I have been shooting Accubonds for years with lethal results! Just saying.

 

[Engineering101]

KillerBee

If only it were so. Of course nobody including Hornady knew about this problem so you can't blame them or Nosler. Hornady tested bullets from all the major vendors including their own with doppler radar and found those with Delrin tips had their BCs degrade by 6 to 15 percent. Their own 6.5mm 140 grain AMAX now has an updated G1 BC of 0.545 versus the previously published value of 0.585. The 7mm 175 grain Nosler ABLR published BC is 0.672 but it measured as 0.604 with doppler.

 

[KillerBee]

KillerBee

If only it were so. Of course nobody including Hornady knew about this problem so you can't blame them or Nosler. Hornady tested bullets from all the major vendors including their own with doppler radar and found those with Delrin tips had their BCs degrade by 6 to 15 percent. Their own 6.5mm 140 grain AMAX now has an updated G1 BC of 0.545 versus the previously published value of 0.585. The 7mm 175 grain Nosler ABLR published BC is 0.672 but it measured as 0.604 with doppler.

I had my gunsmith set up my Huskemaw and he shot my 300 Win Mag with the ABLR's. He chronographed the bullet @ 2850 FPS at 30 yards, Nosler has it @ 2,870 FPS at muzzle.

 

[B-P-UU]

The rifle is a Savage Model 12 LPV in 223 Rem, the bullet a 53 grain VMAX.

I cannot explain why your groups are larger than you'd like, but I do know the whole tip melting phenomenon doesn't occur on bullets with a BC as low as that 53 grainer. Hornady states something to the affect the BC needs to be .500+.
Likely an ES issue, parallax, or user error.

 

[Engineering101]

B-P-UU

You have a point, however, what Hornady also said was, once started, which takes between 0.067 and 0.1 seconds, that tip decay is rapid and the degradation doesn't stop until the projectile drops below 2,100 fps. According to my ballistics program that means that the 53 grain VMAX will be "degrading" starting in the range from 65 yards to 95 yards and ending at 315 yards. It will spend approximately 0.25 seconds being "degraded". Also, the thermal capacity of this bullet is very low relatively speaking so while it is happening, degradation will be more pronounced than for any larger caliber bullet. When you add it all up, I think this bullet is right on the edge of tip failure and some of them do fail and some of them don't fail which is the worst scenario because you have a 3.5 inch uncertainty as to aim point.

Having said all that I do have to thank you as you pointed out to me how I can solve the problem. I just have to slow the bullet down a few hundred fps at launch and that should do it! And I'll save powder! It is official, I'm keeping these bullets.

 

[Buttermilk]

Doesn't Hornady also state that tip melting doesn't occur until bullet has reach around 400 yards? Hence the reason they still recommend their other tipped bullets for ranges 400 yards and under.

 

[ntg]

I think they said you don't really see it affect much until 400yrds. I'd imagine it'd start right away.

Another thought, what about their FTX bullets? I'd think that tip would flatten under the air pressure, but I don't know about melting.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

I think they said you don't really see it affect much until 400yrds. I'd imagine it'd start right away.

Another thought, what about their FTX bullets? I'd think that tip would flatten under the air pressure, but I don't know about melting.

I think most of the FTX are in calibers that are fairly slow, well under 3,000, and not in calibers I would expect see much use beyond 400 yards.

 

[ntg]

Right...it's slower, but it's still around 2,000 miles and hour. That's a lot of pressure.

I guess to me if Hornady has any merit to their claim, and it sure seems that it does, then all bullets with "special" tip material are suspect.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

Right...it's slower, but it's still around 2,000 miles and hour. That's a lot of pressure.

I guess to me if Hornady has any merit to their claim, and it sure seems that it does, then all bullets with "special" tip material are suspect.

True, but the FTX tips have to be soft to be safe. So in their case safety is more important than accuracy, so no change unless they develop a heat resistant soft tip.

 

[ChicSpandex]

I was asking about this years ago. Anyone who read about the temperature of the SR-71 would have wondered. I can't find the post, but I last signed in in 2009, so maybe it's gone. Hornady should exchange all my AMaxs.

I also wondered why Remington Bronze Tips languished, but as soon as brightly colored polymer tips came out, all the kids had to have them.