Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
Pm me and let me know what happens.
Do larger calibers really compensate for bad shots?
- Thread starter PredatorSlayer
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Coyote_Hunter
Well-Known Member
For calibers from .243 to .338 there is a greater difference in results after impact due to bullet construction, velocity and mass than is due to initial diameter. .50 BMG is in a different class entirely, as is an 88mm round from a tank.
That said, there IS a difference if comparing bullets with similar velocities and construction. Is there anyone here that would rather be hit by a 250g .338 FMJ @ 3000fps than a 55g .223 FMJ at the same velocity? Count me out on that one.
My 7m RM has reliably taken elk since 1982. My 338 WM takes them just as reliably and makes much larger holes in and out. If my .338 had the same recoil as my 7mm RM, I'd retire the 7mm RM.
No cartridge is going to put down an animal if the placement is poor enough. A few years ago I shot an elk broadside at 400 yards, plus or minus a couple, across a valley. Wind pushed the bullet back further than intended and, judging by the massive blood trail, I hit the liver. We trailed that elk over a ridge, across a valley and over another ridge. The blood trail went from ribbons of dark blood 2-3" wide and 2-3 feet long with blood chest high on the brush on both sides of the trail. The blood trail diminished to to occasional drops before finally petering out entirely as the elk approached a fence that marked the end of huntable land. With no trail to follow and no idea if the elk jumped the fence or not, we had to give up in the dark and resume the hunt the next morning. We never found the elk. I am convinced that a different bullet (like a Berger) would have done more damage to the liver and caused the elk to bleed out faster, leading to a recovery. I suspect the same hit with my .338 would have resulted in a different ending a well.
[edit to add]
The point is that we live in a world where incremental differences often or usually make little difference in an outcome but sometimes make a world of difference. A rocket with just a bit too little power crashes back to earth while one with just a little more power makes it out of earth's gravitational reach and heads for the stars. A nuclear bomb fizzles or unleashes the power of the sun depending on a tiny differences in timing, material purity and other factors. While it is ridiculous to think that a larger, more powerful cartridge never can or will make a difference. The fact is that, on occasion, they will - just as will using bullet X instead of bullet Y. Or velocity A instead of A+.
[end edit]
That said, there IS a difference if comparing bullets with similar velocities and construction. Is there anyone here that would rather be hit by a 250g .338 FMJ @ 3000fps than a 55g .223 FMJ at the same velocity? Count me out on that one.
My 7m RM has reliably taken elk since 1982. My 338 WM takes them just as reliably and makes much larger holes in and out. If my .338 had the same recoil as my 7mm RM, I'd retire the 7mm RM.
No cartridge is going to put down an animal if the placement is poor enough. A few years ago I shot an elk broadside at 400 yards, plus or minus a couple, across a valley. Wind pushed the bullet back further than intended and, judging by the massive blood trail, I hit the liver. We trailed that elk over a ridge, across a valley and over another ridge. The blood trail went from ribbons of dark blood 2-3" wide and 2-3 feet long with blood chest high on the brush on both sides of the trail. The blood trail diminished to to occasional drops before finally petering out entirely as the elk approached a fence that marked the end of huntable land. With no trail to follow and no idea if the elk jumped the fence or not, we had to give up in the dark and resume the hunt the next morning. We never found the elk. I am convinced that a different bullet (like a Berger) would have done more damage to the liver and caused the elk to bleed out faster, leading to a recovery. I suspect the same hit with my .338 would have resulted in a different ending a well.
[edit to add]
The point is that we live in a world where incremental differences often or usually make little difference in an outcome but sometimes make a world of difference. A rocket with just a bit too little power crashes back to earth while one with just a little more power makes it out of earth's gravitational reach and heads for the stars. A nuclear bomb fizzles or unleashes the power of the sun depending on a tiny differences in timing, material purity and other factors. While it is ridiculous to think that a larger, more powerful cartridge never can or will make a difference. The fact is that, on occasion, they will - just as will using bullet X instead of bullet Y. Or velocity A instead of A+.
[end edit]
Last edited:
Steve Sheasly
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2017
- Messages
- 184
A bad shot is a miss or a wound a larger caliber makes it worse. You can answer your own question when you gut out a gutshot animal with a .338 Lapua as I shoot.
okie man
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 1,040
Define a bad shot! A bigger caliber will always give you a little more margin for error! Bull elk standing 500 yards away, only the shoulder is clear, you have a 25/06 with 117 grain bullets , standard load for decades, now your buddy is with you, 300 mag with 200 grain bullets.Which gun would you want? Last day, last hour of hunt, thousands of dollars spent, vacation time used up. Everyone's tagged out, tired from packing meat. Which gun gives you a better chance of anchoring the bull before he dives off into a hell hole in the dark. Tell me size doesn't matter
BigJam
Member
Sometimes too much gun isn't better. We get coyotes out in our fields regularly and I usually shoot them with the 22-250 and they drop like rocks. But one day I just happened to have a 270 handy and ended up shooting it 3 times and when I got out to it it was down but still growli g at me. Skinned it out to take a look and all good shots but bullets ripped right through and didn't leave much of a wound channel compared to what the 22 250 does. Find bear are similar, they don't go nearly as far after being shot with a 243 than they do with 270, 300, 7mm. Just my experience.
BigJam
Member
Can't agree more, pigs are tough as hell, headshots or the only way to go!
memtb
Well-Known Member
I've never experienced that with my .375 AI....from several feet (around 15 feet) to around 280 yards. But, I guess there's always a first time!
memtb
I have yet to experience that kind of problem.
(Taken with .225 NAB .338WM at 338 yards).
(Taken with .175 Matrix VLD .270 AI at 525 yards).
Ingwe
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2011
- Messages
- 1,041
Just thinking about the title of this thread and here are my thoughts in a nutshell:
A badly/gut shot Elk is bad whether it's with a 223 or a 458 BUT if I had to track a gut shot Elk, I would rather it have been gut shot by a 458 than a 223.
So the answer in NO , caliber won't compensate for a poorly placed shot, but, a large caliber will destroy more tissue which SHOULD make recovery more of a possibility
A badly/gut shot Elk is bad whether it's with a 223 or a 458 BUT if I had to track a gut shot Elk, I would rather it have been gut shot by a 458 than a 223.
So the answer in NO , caliber won't compensate for a poorly placed shot, but, a large caliber will destroy more tissue which SHOULD make recovery more of a possibility
Last edited:
Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
Me Either. Large Whitetail Doe 100yds 300RUM 190ABLR. Messed up and hit the scapula on entry.
Ingwe
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2011
- Messages
- 1,041
OMG!!
Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
Thank god it was a 300 and not a creedmore. We wouldnt have had any camp meat
Orange Dust
Well-Known Member
I can assure all of you the best place to aim with this combo is right in the middle, 1/3 from the bottom if range is under 300 and you want anything to eat. Settles the discussion for large for animal cartridges and gutshot. Instant kill, believe me. I killed 5 last year with this combo.
