Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor

[royinidaho]

Lov'n this thread - gotta chime in.

Back in the day when I tho't the only cartridge was Win and the only bullet was a 130 gr sierra BT @ 3100 FPS, 70 yard perfect broad side heart shot on a young bull moose. Saw complete penetration from bullet impact on the other side.

It was like a complete miss. No physical reaction from the moose. It took him a looooonnnnn time to drop. He then stood up. The plan now was to take out both front wheels, rope him, tie him to a tree and get a bigger gun.

The second shot penetrated both shoulder blades about 2" from the joint. I observed complete penetration again.

I was amazed that both bullets passed through the moose with one going thru both shoulder blades.

Some time life is just strange. (The cartridge of choice now is the 375 Allen Magnum )

 

[Longreach]

Not sure if anyone else had this problem, but my son almost lost a cow elk yesterday due to bullet failure. He hit his cow elk low in the front shoulder smashing the bone above the elbow. Bullet appears to have completely come apart and did not enter the chest. Follow up shot smashed the same shoulder high but also failed to penetrate the chest. All this at 325 yards with a 6.5 creedmoor and a 130 grain nosler partition. We came back the next day and found the cow bedded in trees. She got up and ran off. Ultimately he killed her with a 270. So should I blame the 6.5 creedmoor as being too light for cow elk or the 130 grain nosler partition??? Anyone else kill elk with a 6.5 creedmoor with a solid shoulder shot? If so, what bullet did you use because my 11 year old daughter has a tag next month and can't handle the recoil of much more than my creedmoor.

I wouldn't blame the cartridge or the bullet. When shooting genuinely big game, cows or otherwise, I believe in heavy-for-calibre bullets of suitable construction.

 

[5gauss]

I understand a direct shoulder shot may anchor the animal possibly but 3 inches behind the shoulder broadside will go through both lungs/ribs and down elk in about 10 15 seconds in which it can cover some ground, but dead for sure it will be with the good bullets of today(Barnes,Nosler,etc)

 

[jjmp]

your son placed the 125 Partition in the wrong place ,this happens to all who hunt enough, no problem ,just calls for more Range time,its good for you both, look up the energy of that bullet at 300 yds . its a GREAT bullet loaded for a friends 264 mag, he shoot two trophy whitetail bucks from one yr to the next past 430yds ,one shot each drt.

 

[Longranger7mm]

The last cow I shot weighed over 400 pounds. Shot her at 305 yards with a 150gr through the lungs didn't go 20 feet. For me I usually go for lungs, big targets. And they can't get to far when they can't breathe. I eat what I kill, try not to waste a shoulder if i don't have to.

 

[CRaTxn]

My mistake. 140 grain partition. As far as shot placement my son knows to aim for the crease but he is 13 and in the field it's hard to complain that he hit the front shoulder at 325 yards. I know some of you don't believe this. I have seen similar posts about other bullets and didn't believe them either. My daughter had great performance on a deer and antelope this year with the same bullet. With perfect shot placement a 223 will kill an elk, but in the field things are not always perfect as in my sons case. I just expected penetration at least through the ribs with a partition bullet. And it's not like the creedmoor has such high impact velocity to destroy the bullet on impact.

It sounds to me like the CM DID have sufficient impact velocity to destroy this bullet !

 

[WildRose]

Creedmoor guys need to realize they aren't shooting a Magnum, even if the gun rags and internet snipers think it's the best "new" thing this century! It's really not!

You really need to delete that photo.

Vulgarity of that sort is absolutely verbotten here.

 

[WildRose]

the OP said the first bullet may have "deflected low". Like I said there's a possibility of a deflection. You made the assumption that they did not exit the quarter. In any case the OP stated it's a possibility. If he wants to post pictures that's fine. I'll stick with the possibility that both bullets deflected once hitting the shoulder.

Tell us about those magic bullets that can exit without an exit wound?

There was no exit from the meat, no entry into the body cavity.

 

[xsn10s]

The last cow I shot weighed over 400 pounds. Shot her at 305 yards with a 150gr through the lungs didn't go 20 feet. For me I usually go for lungs, big targets. And they can't get to far when they can't breathe. I eat what I kill, try not to waste a shoulder if i don't have to.

I've used both shoulder shots and heart/ lung broadside shots. The longest any game has run on me was from a heart/ lung shot. I've been lucky and have not lost any game, and never had to take more than one shot. But I see more and more hunters take game with lighter constructed bullets and a heart/lung staying away from the shoulder. I'm leaning towards going that route. Besides I hunt more for the meat now too. So saving the shoulder makes sense.

 

[xsn10s]

It sounds to me like the CM DID have sufficient impact velocity to destroy this bullet !

If you mean complete destruction of the Partition including the rear section I doubt it. We did glass gel tests 22-60gr PT specifically to defeat glass like windshields on cars. Those are extremely tough and hard on bullets but the rear sections held up on those tests. Impact velocities were close to 3000 fps if I remember correctly. Basic AR15 loads. Not an apples to apples example since were are talking about the 6.5mm 140gr PT but I think we can glean some info from it. But if you are saying that the nose section was wiped off then I'm open to that possibility.

 

[WildRose]

If you mean complete destruction of the Partition including the rear section I doubt it. We did glass gel tests 22-60gr PT specifically to defeat glass like windshields on cars. Those are extremely tough and hard on bullets but the rear sections held up on those tests. Impact velocities were close to 3000 fps if I remember correctly. Basic AR15 loads. Not an apples to apples example since were are talking about the 6.5mm 140gr PT but I think we can glean some info from it. But if you are saying that the nose section was wiped off then I'm open to that possibility.

That's why if they failed to penetrate the odds are it's a manufacturing error rather than the bullet being inferior or lacking energy.

 

[xsn10s]

That's why if they failed to penetrate the odds are it's a manufacturing error rather than the bullet being inferior or lacking energy.

You can have that opinion if you want. But like I said without seeing the bullet, the wound, or looking into the chest cavity that's only a guess. And what I have tried to suggest is there can be other explanations like deflection. I think somewhere on Nosler's website they described the rear section of the PT as being 2/3rds of the bullet. Each Partition is a bit different in design but lets go off that description. if the frontal section was swiped off then we'd have roughly 93 grains of bullet weight. That gives me a sectional density of roughly .19065 or rounding up .191. That's pretty low, less than what some manufacturers said needed for deer. So that's why I say the bullets could of lost the front section and deflected off. We've argued over this enough. I don't care to spend another day arguing over this. So we can agree to disagree. No hard feelings, just a difference of opinions.

 

[adam32]

Well since my post was deleted...I'll say it again a little more politely.

This absolutely is NOT a case a bullet failure. Poor shot placement and poor cartridge selection is at fault.

The 140gr Partition that was used was barely going 2,000 fps at impact, and with 1,300 lbs of energy you expect those numbers to break thru an elk shoulder? That's laughable.

The same guys saying the Creed is a great choice for elk at 300+ yards are the same guys saying a 22-243 is too small for deer at closer ranges...again, laughable.

The numbers don't lie, don't expect amazing terminal performance from a rifle that on paper is marginal at best.

 

[Predator 22]

I did look at the ballistics. Maybe you need glasses. At Nineteen Hundred yards it is traveling at 1145 fps. . Anyway you cut it that's pretty awesome, whether you want to admit it or not.

Comparing a boutique, heavy for caliber target bullet to a soft point, flat base hunting bullet???
Run the numbers on a 160 grain matrix at 3100 fps. That would be a fair comparison. Or run the numbers on a 25 cal partition versus a 140 grain 6.5mm bullet.