Are wolves really the problem

[longrangehuntr]

Talking with a few friends of mine, they believe the wolf (wrong species to boot) was introduced and pushed by people that want to stop hunting all together. With all of the idiots we have running this country it is tough to argue with that.
Seems one guy here doesn't want to acknowledge the facts as they are and has his own agenda to push. Must be one of those enlightened ones that introduce the freaking wolf in the first place. Hard to believe he could be a hunter because I don't know a single hunter that thinks the wolf has been helpful in the least and only extremely detrimental.

you are hilarious, so someone who is a hunter can't have a discussion? hard to believe the wolf is still around with this much anger toward the wolf. if the ranchers on here piled up the wolf like they claim to pile up the elk when they try and eat the feed put out for cattle the wolf wouldn't be a problem. How many land owner tags do these ranchers get? I know a number of "hunters" that would like to be able to shoot elk whenever they want. I hope the day comes when wolf hunting is allowed in every state. Since poaching isnt a big deal and everyone has a problem with wolves, why not just start shooting them?

 

[rick523]

you are hilarious, so someone who is a hunter can't have a discussion? hard to believe the wolf is still around with this much anger toward the wolf. if the ranchers on here piled up the wolf like they claim to pile up the elk when they try and eat the feed put out for cattle the wolf wouldn't be a problem. How many land owner tags do these ranchers get? I know a number of "hunters" that would like to be able to shoot elk whenever they want. I hope the day comes when wolf hunting is allowed in every state. Since poaching isnt a big deal and everyone has a problem with wolves, why not just start shooting them?

I couldn't take it any longer. This just shows your ignorance. First I don't live in the West I wish, but have gone out every year since 99, If a redneck from In. can see the decline, then the guys that live there sure as hell can. I don't think ranchers are stacking up elk like cord wood, (where did you get this from) and I do not know any true "hunters" that would like to shoot an elk whenever they want. Take a drive through Yellowstone sometime and tell me how many elk you see, I saw exactly 3 two years ago, down about 99% from 15 years ago. I think I was behind you in traffic awhile back your bumper sticker read something like "Hug a tree, kiss a wolf, harass every hunter you can." may not be a direct quote but it's close. Seriously though you don't have a clue! Oh and by the way I will be in Wy. in 2 weeks and pray I see a wolf, nothing like S,S,& S. Y'all have a nice day now ya hear....

 

[longrangehuntr]

Post #37, for the piles of elk. I know hunters every year that never draw tags. New Mexico finally got enough people together to change how many tags land owners were getting because they were turning around and selling the tags for top dollar to out of state residents. Residents should not go 10 years without drawing tags for antelope, elk, and the exotics, ibex and oryx.
just like a liberal to blame guns for violence. wolves im sure are killing a large portion of elk however there are a large number of other factors for low calf birth and survival.
im sure that was not my bumper sticker. by all means please shoot a few wolves for everyone on this forum.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I couldn't take it any longer. This just shows your ignorance. First I don't live in the West I wish, but have gone out every year since 99, If a redneck from In. can see the decline, then the guys that live there sure as hell can. I don't think ranchers are stacking up elk like cord wood, (where did you get this from) and I do not know any true "hunters" that would like to shoot an elk whenever they want. Take a drive through Yellowstone sometime and tell me how many elk you see, I saw exactly 3 two years ago, down about 99% from 15 years ago. I think I was behind you in traffic awhile back your bumper sticker read something like "Hug a tree, kiss a wolf, harass every hunter you can." may not be a direct quote but it's close. Seriously though you don't have a clue! Oh and by the way I will be in Wy. in 2 weeks and pray I see a wolf, nothing like S,S,& S. Y'all have a nice day now ya hear....

I was actually thinking of getting a T-shirt and ball cap with a picture of wolf or wolf's head with SSS stamper over top of it. Maybe I can get a group buy? I would love to wear one downtown Bozeman for the benefit of the wolf lovin tree huggers.

 

[RTK]

longrangehunter, if the wolf was not a major problem why would does Idaho now let you buy tags to shoot them when a few years ago they were protected and carried some ridicules $500,000 fine??? The DF&G also hunts them from helicopters now too. Ever Wonder Why?? Do you even know which species of wolf they introduced???

 

[HARPERC]

I was actually thinking of getting a T-shirt and ball cap with a picture of wolf or wolf's head with SSS stamper over top of it. Maybe I can get a group buy? I would love to wear one downtown Bozeman for the benefit of the wolf lovin tree huggers.

A group buy sounds good, a friend has a shirt with one in the crosshairs, and yes its a conversation starter.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

A group buy sounds good, a friend has a shirt with one in the crosshairs, and yes its a conversation starter.

Maybe I'll have a pic of a lumberjack sawing down a tree in the background

Serious though, i am going to pursue this!!!

 

[rick523]

I was actually thinking of getting a T-shirt and ball cap with a picture of wolf or wolf's head with SSS stamper over top of it. Maybe I can get a group buy? I would love to wear one downtown Bozeman for the benefit of the wolf lovin tree huggers.

Count me in.

 

[RTK]

Maybe I'll have a pic of a lumberjack sawing down a tree in the background

Serious though, i am going to pursue this!!!

Don't forget to put a spotted owl in the top of that tree

 

[bigngreen]

Post #37, for the piles of elk. I know hunters every year that never draw tags. New Mexico finally got enough people together to change how many tags land owners were getting because they were turning around and selling the tags for top dollar to out of state residents. Residents should not go 10 years without drawing tags for antelope, elk, and the exotics, ibex and oryx.
just like a liberal to blame guns for violence. wolves im sure are killing a large portion of elk however there are a large number of other factors for low calf birth and survival.
im sure that was not my bumper sticker. by all means please shoot a few wolves for everyone on this forum.

OK, you really just want to grind some axes so lets get going, if you had 800 or more elk coming into your one source of hay for your cattle, which are your lively hood you would do anything to keep them back till you get your hay off!! Running them till their tongues hang out on motorcycles don't work, helicopters don't work and fencing does not work, at the time we had no wolves and all time elk highs and FWP would let us shoot elk to try to keep them back which works, in MT we could take and use the elk which we did. The best way to get the elk to stay back is to kill the lead cow so you don't have to kill more than you need to, lead cow sometimes would buy you two weeks! You would have to kill elk like a pack of wolves to dent the population, the populations are only as good as they are because ranchers have given elk some refuge from the wolf, what's bad for elk is also bad for cattle!!

Your running a whole lot of states and elk into one group, your elk in Wa have zero to do with ours in MT, besides when I lived in Wa I had no problem finding elk but give it a few years now you have wolves and you'll never get an elk! I do kinda understand the Indian thing but in Wa it's a whole lot different a deal than in MT.
Here in my area of MT we have the largest density of elk in MT, I pull two elk tags a year no problem and I kill two elk a year no problem, the little group of guys I hunt with usually take 20+ elk a year and all with tags easily obtained by anyone and we don't make a dent in the population.

Land owners get same tags and numbers anyone does unless issued depredation permits by FWP. One family member can get a guaranteed tag for an area that they have land in but that is the only preference given them which isn't much considering they put a lot of dollars into wildlife!

 

[longrangehuntr]

so you have to shoot an elk in order for the rest of the herd to keep away? Im glad you use the meat. you cant shoot into the ground, air horn, decoy food source that takes the elk away from the cattle feeding area. did you see where a herd of 100 elk died in NM from something called Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease, or EHD. The often-fatal disease is caused by insect bites."With EHD, an elk could get a fever," said Game and Fish spokesperson Rachel Shockley. "It's usually a pretty fast illness, and up to eight to 36 hours later the animals go into shock, and then they die. there has to be better ways then just killing off elk because they eat some hay. elk are a resource that needs to be managed. I don't care how large your elk population is. the buffalo herds were really large as well and we did a great job of killing a majority of them as well.

 

[rooster740]

so you have to shoot an elk in order for the rest of the herd to keep away? Im glad you use the meat. you cant shoot into the ground, air horn, decoy food source that takes the elk away from the cattle feeding area. did you see where a herd of 100 elk died in NM from something called Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease, or EHD. The often-fatal disease is caused by insect bites."With EHD, an elk could get a fever," said Game and Fish spokesperson Rachel Shockley. "It's usually a pretty fast illness, and up to eight to 36 hours later the animals go into shock, and then they die. there has to be better ways then just killing off elk because they eat some hay.

Are you serious? These ranchers are the reason that a lot of these elk herds even exist! Yes you kill a couple cows, and remove the guts and leave what is not useable for food. Oh magic! They stay away for awhile.
I have chased hundreds of elk on a snowmobile, wheeler and truck, blowing hair off their *** with #8 shot and cracker shells, in hours they are back! I have slept numerous nights in a stack yard it sucks!
If ya knock a few down, the remaining elk or deer herds seam to get it!
Air horn? Really? Do you carry a compressor in a back pack?
Shoot into the ground? Really? And bounce a bullet into the guts of an animal to run off and die in the elks safe zone or enroute ?

 

[bigngreen]

so you have to shoot an elk in order for the rest of the herd to keep away? Im glad you use the meat. you cant shoot into the ground, air horn, decoy food source that takes the elk away from the cattle feeding area. did you see where a herd of 100 elk died in NM from something called Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease, or EHD. The often-fatal disease is caused by insect bites."With EHD, an elk could get a fever," said Game and Fish spokesperson Rachel Shockley. "It's usually a pretty fast illness, and up to eight to 36 hours later the animals go into shock, and then they die. there has to be better ways then just killing off elk because they eat some hay. elk are a resource that needs to be managed. I don't care how large your elk population is. the buffalo herds were really large as well and we did a great job of killing a majority of them as well.

I really don't think you can understand what I'm getting at, I just wish you'd take someones word for it who lives right in the middle of this country and deals with these issues every day instead of propaganda!

I helped the Idaho FWP cull on a herd of elk one summer and it was a last resort, we had placed air canons around the field, these give of a gunshot at random intervals. We'd come in at night and pushed them, one night we got in close down wind and lit them up with spot light and buzz bombs which are whistling M80s shot from a 12 gauge, there was elk running every where and I though we had them of for a while but in a couple days they were back. Finally it came to just shooting some, the unfortunate part is we were not allowed to utilize them, sometimes you can keep them or they go to the food bank but some want them left and I understand the reasoning.
Making a decoy field is just a poor idea, for one you would have to take out more ground and farm it then you'd have to water it and raise a more tasty crop that would hold the elk so you'd more than double your cost, which of the top of my head would have been about $200/acre and you would have to somehow figured out a way to get water rights. And the number one reason is the elk herd should be maintained at a level the natural feed in the area will sustain them, just the improvements that ranchers do to the water in the mountains has raised elk population higher we should not raise them beyond a natural sustainable level, which feeding them does!!!
I don't think you quite comprehend the amount of elk we have, if your killing adult elk you can knock out a good percentage and you can kill bulls down to 6% of the herd with no issues and on top of that we try to target adult dry cows if we can which only increases the available feed for the cows with calves. I've seen as much as 25% of an elk herd killed during rifle season and the next year there were more elk than the year before. The issue is plain and simple the wolves!!

You need to watch this, this was made where I live and I know a good share of the ranchers well and there is no BS!! You can watch on line for free. Crying Wolf | Exposing the Wolf Reintroduction to Yellowstone National Park

 

[longrangehuntr]

@rooster740, Would the gut piles not attrack the coyotes and wolfs, bears and any other carivor scavengers?
again shooting elk with a shotgun,harrasing them. with your actions as well as other ranchers i don't see how the elk are there. can you not carry an air compressor on an atv or truck? not sure where you are shooting into the ground that bullets take off from the ground and into the surrounding elk population. so not only do you shoot elk because you think that is the only way to tell them to stay away from your hay you leave gut piles which attrack other scavengers. I hunted on a ranchers land in new mexico who has his cattle in one of the top elk draw areas. he doesn't go around shooting elk. you have to decide whether you want the elk there or you don't want the elk there. you don't like them eating your hay but you said the elk you hate eating your hay fills your freezer.


@bigngreen
same game and fish that thought it was a great idea to reintroduce wolves. If you call what you say is propaganda then I will start listening to someone else. i see what you and other individuals are saying on here and it seems to be one giant contradiction. Like every other animal you will seek out food so they will always come back. Even better shooting elk with game and fish and letting them go to waste. that is a great idea since the elk are not declining in population at all.
the reason the herd is there is because of the cattle which have hay, decoy on the far end of your property. so ranchers are the reason the elk are doing well however they are doing too well and therefore have to shoot a bunch of elk some of which are just left to waste.

How do you tell an adult dry cow elk from a calf producing elk? I doubt this is something that is used more than it is in theory.
so the elk herd is knocked down by 25% yet the next year it doubles in size and they are doing better than what the area will sustain yet the problem, the only problem is the wolf.
Im watching that video right after i send this response.