Are wolves really the problem

[longrangehuntr]

Membership to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, any of you members?

 

[Red Sparky]

Family membership RMEF. Life Member NAHC, Life Member NRA, daughter Member DU, other daughter Member NWTF.

When I get more money I plan on becoming a member of any bow hunting organization I can and turning my daughters memberships to life members.

 

[longrangehuntr]

Any info on the lion introduction? I would very much like to read about that since the wildlife bios there never mentioned that. There are mnt lions there but I never heard about the lions. yeah in the tune of $15,000-$20,000 for tags on the indian res. same with the antelop tags and there are somehow ranches in the middle of the national forest land that control the hunting. 8x8 elk have come out of unit 34, cattle ranch area. the crazy thing is the state of texas considers the oryx a nuisance animal but some how still charge a truck load to hunt them. ft bliss which boards white sands sees the large oryx herd on ft bliss property but texas does not count them as game. I can see predators any predator species do damage if not controlled but they cannot be destroyed or other critters get out of control. for example, driving around wsmr, the coyote and bear population was destroyed when nmgf used poison packets dropped from aircraft. the jack rabbits, ground squirrels and whatever else are not out of control.
sometimes hunters have to take matters into their own hands since g&f will not manage the resources responsibly.

Did you know when they introduced them they also introduced African Lions? At White Sands Missile Range there are pictures of lions on the missile range. The lions didn't make it so they had no predators but hunters. Imagine if we were having this discussion over lions rather than wolves.

Now I am not starting a fight among ranchers and hunters but these are my personal experiences.

On your other post you stated the ranchers and Native Americans drive elk onto their land. I can't say from personal experience about Native Americans but I have seen ranchers moving elk into their land from forest service boundaries before hunting season. Yes you can move them by human scent and activity in the area before hunting season. A lot of people have called this false but it does happen. The reason is in your other post.....BIG BUCKS for private land tags.

I have been to NM G&F meetings when ranchers were bitching about the elk on their land destroying crops and causing an economic hardship on the ranches and wanting more tags. When I asked them, in the open meeting, if I could hunt their ranch since I had a public land tag I was told NO.

The same with the Oryx....ranchers wanted to charge to hunt their land or no access. Now that is their land to charge access to but don't complain about the wild life damaging the land and crops if you do not want animals taken off it without charging $.

Now as I stated earlier I am not starting a fight between hunters and ranchers. I RESPECT them both, I have been on both sides of the fence. I know people on both the good and bad side of hunting and ranching. Some bad apples on both sides give the whole barrel a bad taste.

Now to get back on topic..Yes the wolves are a major problem. They should have been hunted a lot sooner than they started the hunting season. The reintroduction is completely FUBAR and I don't think we as hunters can catch up and reduce the population to what it should be.

 

[longrangehuntr]

Family membership RMEF. Life Member NAHC, Life Member NRA, daughter Member DU, other daughter Member NWTF.

When I get more money I plan on becoming a member of any bow hunting organization I can and turning my daughters memberships to life members.

great, i have pheasants and quail forever foundations as well.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

No. I am not a member of the RMEF. The REMF supports, and I quote...

The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation supports the science-based management of wolves and other predators.

Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation > News and Media > Press Room > Predator Management & Control

They should have fought tooth and nail to prevent the introduction of wolves. Instead, they welcomed it. I'm more than a little hot about that!

I don't mind bears and lions as we had good populations of elk with them around before the wolves showed up. But introducing wolves was like setting a wildfire in a summer drought. They breed like rats and they spread. In 20 years they will own half the Rocky Mountains and other wildlands here in the West. In 40 years they will be from here to Mexico and CA.

I am not at all in favor of any management of vermin. I am in favor of complete eradication. The RMEF can go ......

 

[longrangehuntr]

Two years after Congress removed gray wolves from the endangered species list in the northern Rockies, the animals are facing a new threat: disease. Outbreaks of infections such as sarcoptic mange, which is spread by mites, and canine distemper virus (CDV), have reduced wolf survival rates and contributed to an overall decline in Yellowstone National Park wolves.
Until recently, wolf populations in Yellowstone had been on a steady upswing. In 1995 park managers brought in 31 gray wolves from Canada to restore a population that had been virtually wiped out by hunting and other forms of depredation. (Montana veterinarians introduced the mange-carrying mite Sarcoptes scabiei to Yellowstone in 1905 in an effort to extirpate the wolves.) The most recent count put the regional wolf population at 1,727 in 2011, well above the lower limit set by federal agencies.
The Yellowstone wolves may be particularly susceptible to disease because, as transplants, they are relatively new to their environment. And wolf pups are the most at risk: only 16 survived this year, down from 34 in 2011.
Although scientists do not believe the illnesses pose a threat to the wolves' long-term survival, the new data may spur managers to tweak conservation plans. Wyoming has already reduced its hunting quota from 52 to 29, which experts say is a step in the right direction but may not be enough to shield the population from chance disturbances, be they trophy hunts or diseases. "Whether this is enough of a reduction will be evaluated following the next hunt," which begins in December, says Emily Almberg, a graduate ecology student at Pennsylvania State University who studies the wolves.

 

[dook]

Membership to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, any of you members?

I used to be, then I figured them out and quit. Not only did they support the wolf introduction, they still do as evidenced by their refusal to inform their members about the hydatid issue.
Yes, they parade around pretending to be the "last word" on North American Elk and they withhold important information that would discredit those responsible for the demise of 9/10 of said Elk. They talk out of both sides of their mouths.

 

[HARPERC]

The only thing endangered is the paychecks of parasites following wolves around for a living. Seriously world wide wherever wolves exist it's the same story they eat themselves out of wildlife, then it's livestock then pets. Russia, France, BC, Alberta, and Alaska are all spending considerable dollars trying to keep their numbers in check. At some point a cost analysis will turn back to poison. The game numbers we enjoyed years ago were secondary to solid predator control. Numerous articles exist showing cow/calf ratios before and after predator control measures, antelope, deer, caribou, elk, and moose. Some of those studies show ratios improving from single digits in some cases, to highs in the upper 80% range. Its not poachers, subsistence hunters, or ranchers killing the young, and some of those numbers were before the introduction of an apex predator like the wolf. Many units in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming you can drive to and count for yourself. The Gardner unit north of Yellowstone had 1500 late season elk tags pre wolf, its closed now. For 35 years that elk herd withstood, poachers, road kill, depredation hunts, ranching, harsh winters and native harvest, but it could not survive the wolf. Moose populations have dropped across the board as well. Why aren't these species enjoying a rejuvenation now that they have the weak and sick culled by the all knowing wise wolf that assesses the herd and trims it to their mutual benefit. The entire story of the wolf being placed in Yellowstone is a complete lie from its inception to the present.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Since this thread is all over the place now, I'll give you all ANOTHER reason wolves are the problem. Not that you really need another reason.
I do leatherwork and one of the local sheep outfits commissioned me to make wolf collars for the guard dogs. These collars have nails attached to a solid metal plate sandwiched in between two pieces of leather and the nails are welded onto the plate. They are extremely heavy duty to withstand an attack from a wolf as they go for the necks on the guard dogs which are either pyranees or akbashes. I made about 30 of these collars for 3 different sheep outfits and they worked great.
I can also give you example after example of wolves killing guard dogs in this area of Idaho all the while killing sheep. (in between killing elk) I've seen photos (I'll try to get them for you as you keep saying you need proof) of a pyranees shredded by a pack of wolves as he tried to defend the flock while the herder went to town. It was horrific.
In any case, the collars worked great----until the wolves figured it out. It took them no time at all after getting their mouths impaled. Know what they did then???
They went for the guts. So, yeah, they're a problem.

Randy

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Two years after Congress removed gray wolves from the endangered species list in the northern Rockies, the animals are facing a new threat: disease. Outbreaks of infections such as sarcoptic mange, which is spread by mites, and canine distemper virus (CDV), have reduced wolf survival rates and contributed to an overall decline in Yellowstone National Park wolves.
Until recently, wolf populations in Yellowstone had been on a steady upswing. In 1995 park managers brought in 31 gray wolves from Canada to restore a population that had been virtually wiped out by hunting and other forms of depredation. (Montana veterinarians introduced the mange-carrying mite Sarcoptes scabiei to Yellowstone in 1905 in an effort to extirpate the wolves.) The most recent count put the regional wolf population at 1,727 in 2011, well above the lower limit set by federal agencies.
The Yellowstone wolves may be particularly susceptible to disease because, as transplants, they are relatively new to their environment. And wolf pups are the most at risk: only 16 survived this year, down from 34 in 2011.
Although scientists do not believe the illnesses pose a threat to the wolves' long-term survival, the new data may spur managers to tweak conservation plans. Wyoming has already reduced its hunting quota from 52 to 29, which experts say is a step in the right direction but may not be enough to shield the population from chance disturbances, be they trophy hunts or diseases. "Whether this is enough of a reduction will be evaluated following the next hunt," which begins in December, says Emily Almberg, a graduate ecology student at Pennsylvania State University who studies the wolves.

This is typical of unmanaged natural populations. When the wolves were first introduced to Yellowstone, there was an abundance of elk for them to prey upon. Food was plentiful and life was good for the mutts... and for the first time in natural history, the wolf did not have a predator (man) chasing him. Wolf populations grew quickly to the point of over population. The number 1 and 2 causes of death for wolves is other wolves and disease. When wild populations grow to the point of over population the usual natural cure for it is disease.

Rest assured though, that this will not kill off all the wolves, not by any means. Their populations will drop, settle out and continue to rise and eb along with the populations of their prey and they will continue to breed and spread like a plague through out the country.

 

[longrangehuntr]

What was suppose to be gained by introducing a predator that would kill of? In the end it comes down to money and this will end up taking lots of revenue for states.

 

[dook]

What was suppose to be gained by introducing a predator that would kill of? In the end it comes down to money and this will end up taking lots of revenue for states.

What will be gained is that less people will be hunting and therefore less people will be interested in owning guns or opposing gun control.

 

[longrangehuntr]

I think there are as many people if not more that own firearms that do not hunt. the professional shooting community is growing and 3 gun is huge as well the mounted shooters. To try and kill off big game to where people cant hunt would take too much money. If you wanted to limit hunting to where people stop they could just limit the number of tags more so than they are now.

 

[dook]

To try and kill off big game to where people cant hunt would take too much money.

Since when did our rulers care how much money the Federal Reserve issues out of thin air?