National Graphics special on wolves played several nights ago
- Thread starter RandyinVa
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I am surprised this thread hasn't gone as sideways as what some of them have, considering the the actual content of the show in reference. It was, of course, very one sided and short on substantive content. Your basic anthropomorphic rehash.
Did he ever post his content? I listened to his latest podcast yesterday and don't remember hearing anything about it.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Prove that by our biology that we are invasive vs acting out what's in our biological nature? Our beginnings are the same as anything else regardless of how one views our beginnings be it a Creator or some form of evolutionary effect, only having a Creator puts us in a position that we have any more responsibility to any other living thing beyond being the apex predator.
Caucasians are invasive to this continent. I'm pretty sure not everyone on here is 100% or mostly Native American.
Both my parents have Native ancestors, enough that I'm considered mixed race but not so much that I consider myself Native American.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Are you saying the people of different skin color are different species?
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Native Americans are not native to this land, they migrated as well, the same with any white dude only earlier. We moved and migrated just like animals do within their ability, just biologically we are enable to move farther if we choose.
No that's not even remotely close to what I said.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Ok good!
19elkhunter51
Well-Known Member
I can't speak to the wolf problem other than reading in magazines and news items. I do believe that the videos of wolves killing multiple elk in the snow and leaving them to rot are hard to not believe. What I can speak to is what has happened to the deer population in my part of southern California due to the laws regarding mountain lions. It is against the law to kill ANY mountain lion in California. The result is a horrific drop in the number of deer in the area. There were not very many deer in the area to begin with and with the increase in the number of mountain lions the deer numbers have plummeted. When we would go to our property on Palomar Mountain (in San Diego County) we used to see many, multiple groups of deer every time we went to the mountain. Now we are fortunate to see one or two deer in a complete season.
What is of great concern to me is the fact that in northern California a pair of mated wolves was discovered that led to the idiot legislature protecting the wolves the same way they protected the mountain lions. It is against the law to kill a wolf in California.
For the life of me I don't understand the mentality of those that want to "re-introduce" predators into a system that has proven to be the most successful conservation system the world has ever seen. If hunting would be allowed in the NP system you would not have the ridiculous overpopulation of herbivores that does cause an imbalance in the ecosystem. Emotionalism does not put the ecosystem in balance. Allowing the apex predator (man) into the park to control herbivore numbers would bring the over-population into check.
What is of great concern to me is the fact that in northern California a pair of mated wolves was discovered that led to the idiot legislature protecting the wolves the same way they protected the mountain lions. It is against the law to kill a wolf in California.
For the life of me I don't understand the mentality of those that want to "re-introduce" predators into a system that has proven to be the most successful conservation system the world has ever seen. If hunting would be allowed in the NP system you would not have the ridiculous overpopulation of herbivores that does cause an imbalance in the ecosystem. Emotionalism does not put the ecosystem in balance. Allowing the apex predator (man) into the park to control herbivore numbers would bring the over-population into check.
A couple of things I have noticed from people who come from an urban environment that have never spent any real time in the wild or have hunted. They look at the National Parks and other wild places like it's one big zoo with the animals to be protected at all cost from the incursion of humans. They also respond emotionally to wolves like they do with dogs. With their limited exposure to surviving or living in the wild they are totally amazed by the the raw beauty surrounding them and naturally they want to protect it. Then they pack themselves up into their nice warm SUV's and head back their homes in suburbia, posting pictures on Facebook and sending e-mails of their "Great Wilderness Adventure" Many become self appointed environmentalist and pass laws thinking they have done something good but instead they do great harm. Why?? It's because they forget we are a hunter gatherer species, an apex predator. We are a part of nature and not above it. They are totally clueless to the part humans have played in the ecosystem for countless millennia.
We have a problem with the wolves because hunters are not afforded the opportunity to manage the deer/elk population and so the wolves along with other predators are being reintroduced to reduce herd size. It's evident to us here ( but obviously not to others!!) that the wolf and cougar population is getting out of hand because they are protected and we (the hunters) have our hands tied by not being afforded the opportunity to manage them. Politicians made this mess... so give us the opportunity to clean it up!
Sad to say that modern man is increasingly becoming out of touch with our part in nature. We are unceasingly becoming lazy and self absorbed with our high tech toys. Tell your neighbor when they buy meat from the supermarket they just hired a hitman to do the killing for them. I'd rather fill the meat locker with game meat. An elk being harvested by a bullet is way more humane way to go then being ripped to shreds by a pack of wolves. But hey... You gotta eat. All creatures big and small have to eat something to survive.
I think the answer for us is to start banding together and work hard to educate the general population, teaching them basic survival skills, hunting/fishing, field dressing etc... Teach it in the schools as a program to prepare for natural disasters.
Serve some wild game meat in the city school cafeterias once in awhile and share some of your bounty with a clueless neighbor. We need to get more urbanites to see things from our viewpoint and not from these one sided agenda driven media shows.
Seems to me too many people think guns are bad, and hunters have guns, so hunting is bad. They say "One's perception is one's reality". We all gotta start working on that perception... We are the good guys here.... We care about the environment and want to keep it wild so we and our kids can continue to hunt and stay connected to nature and know we are not above it.
So call your congressman, senator and officials in fish & game and tell them to give us the opportunity to manage the herds AND the predators.
And ONE more thing....To everyone here have prosperous and Happy New Year!!
We have a problem with the wolves because hunters are not afforded the opportunity to manage the deer/elk population and so the wolves along with other predators are being reintroduced to reduce herd size. It's evident to us here ( but obviously not to others!!) that the wolf and cougar population is getting out of hand because they are protected and we (the hunters) have our hands tied by not being afforded the opportunity to manage them. Politicians made this mess... so give us the opportunity to clean it up!
Sad to say that modern man is increasingly becoming out of touch with our part in nature. We are unceasingly becoming lazy and self absorbed with our high tech toys. Tell your neighbor when they buy meat from the supermarket they just hired a hitman to do the killing for them. I'd rather fill the meat locker with game meat. An elk being harvested by a bullet is way more humane way to go then being ripped to shreds by a pack of wolves. But hey... You gotta eat. All creatures big and small have to eat something to survive.
I think the answer for us is to start banding together and work hard to educate the general population, teaching them basic survival skills, hunting/fishing, field dressing etc... Teach it in the schools as a program to prepare for natural disasters.
Serve some wild game meat in the city school cafeterias once in awhile and share some of your bounty with a clueless neighbor. We need to get more urbanites to see things from our viewpoint and not from these one sided agenda driven media shows.
Seems to me too many people think guns are bad, and hunters have guns, so hunting is bad. They say "One's perception is one's reality". We all gotta start working on that perception... We are the good guys here.... We care about the environment and want to keep it wild so we and our kids can continue to hunt and stay connected to nature and know we are not above it.
So call your congressman, senator and officials in fish & game and tell them to give us the opportunity to manage the herds AND the predators.
And ONE more thing....To everyone here have prosperous and Happy New Year!!
Rthur
New Member
I agree with your sentiments but the reality is they haven't any interest in population control on the predators. The folks you mentioned would be perfectly happy for the ungulates to be brought back into "natural controlled" populations. This has a side benefit of decreasing the amount of potential tags/hunters. As opportunity falls less
of the hunting heritidge is carried out/passed down. Obviously hunting/gun use is something to be diminished as "guns" are seen as objects of "violence".
R
