National Graphics special on wolves played several nights ago

[BigGrizz]

I read the whole thing then at the bottom of the page was something about Marijuana stocks(shares) being $3.00ish a share.
If we all got together and bought shares we could use the future Fortune 500 monies to conservatively manage the wolf. And we could target the carbon neutral state of Colorado as its got the biggest population of yuppie animal s@vers in the entire world, well.....maybe excluding Hampsterdamn.
To take all their money and use it for the Sportpersons benefit....
I know, I know,,,,, it's a pipe dream. Hahaha

You mean take the Colorado pot revenue we make and use it to unleash wolves in RM National Park?

I'd be down for that.

 

[TG-5150]

You mean take the Colorado pot revenue we make and use it to unleash wolves in RM National Park?

I'd be down for that.

That wasn't nice. Governor Polis would never allow that
Besides, they may already be there, and if not, when they run out of chow up this way- they will get there on their own.

I want to believe there is an amicable solution to this situation, but I don't believe there will be.

There are some of us on this forum that have "river runs through it" mentality, who think the wolf belongs. It's my belief that over half of that said type of person does more harm for the sportmans cause than good.They want more roadless areas, fewer timber sales, no mining, and it goes on and on.
I have a harder view on this topic than I feel I should post on open forum, but I do think if you are going to hunt in a state/area that allows wolf hunting it should be your duty to purchase a wolf tag and attempt to fill it if the situation presents itself. Heck, maybe the states should supply a courtesy wolf tag.
It's not going to curtail the population but it would sure help with all the butt hurt feelings. No pun intended

 

[BigGrizz]

That wasn't nice. Governor Polis would never allow that
Besides, they may already be there, and if not, when they run out of chow up this way- they will get there on their own.

I want to believe there is an amicable solution to this situation, but I don't believe there will be.

There are some of us on this forum that have "river runs through it" mentality, who think the wolf belongs. It's my belief that over half of that said type of person does more harm for the sportmans cause than good.They want more roadless areas, fewer timber sales, no mining, and it goes on and on.
I have a harder view on this topic than I feel I should post on open forum, but I do think if you are going to hunt in a state/area that allows wolf hunting it should be your duty to purchase a wolf tag and attempt to fill it if the situation presents itself. Heck, maybe the states should supply a courtesy wolf tag.
It's not going to curtail the population but it would sure help with all the butt hurt feelings. No pun intended

They're there. About seven years ago I saw a map of the northern rocky region with two tracks on it. It was at the game warden's office/house in Douglas, WY. I was nosey, saw it on the desk and asked what it was.

A pair of collared wolves ended up running together and left Yellowstone. They went west to the Bighorn Mts, then north around glacier, reversed course to the Wind River Basin, headed east through the Casper area of the Laramie range eventually turning south from Shirley Basin to the Sierra Madres not far from Saratoga. If I recall correctly they were dispatched in the mountains of Colorado on the western slope, maybe in the Steamboat/Kremmling/Wolcott corridor. I think their treck took them 2-4mos. That was a while ago, though.

It's clear to everyone that these things know no boundaries. If the truth of how far these things really ranged came out, then I think public sentiment could turn. Same for the grizzlies that are now venturing beyond the management area into the plains and sagebrush.

 

[Knight Templar]

What needs to be managed is man's stupidity, especially that of our corrupt politicians. The wolf is not to blame. It is merely trying to survive after having evolved for millions of years.
It is man's dominion and stupidity which has undermined nature's balance, not to mention his greed and lack of knowledge considering many topics such as the wolf and elk. It does not take a great reservior of knowledge to know that the global wolf thanks to us is in great decline and on the run. Thus leading to infestation of runaway species such as the coyote which has become endemic here in the east in the last 30 to 40 years. Never saw one before. I kill dozens of them each year and it does not appear to be making a dint. The eastern red wolf kept them out but man in his wisdom for all practical purposes exterminated that species which once roamed the entire eastern part of the continent. Recently, a small population has been discovered in southern Algonquin Park in Ontario Canada. I am certain the boneheads will be shooting them also.
Where have the bison gone? Where have the grizzlies gone? where have the cougars gone? etc. etc. As I post this our footprint on this planet is putting an end to many species which have evolved and prospered over millenia.
The wolf or any sentient creature has as many rights to the elk as you. If you think otherwise then you are not an educated individual as is the wolf. Wolves are social animals like us. Hence, like us if you kill their pack leaders it generally creates turmoil and death for the entire pack for they lias us pass down their know how to the next generation. Hence without leadership they all perish.

I have no qualm re shooting anything so long as the population in the region is stable. If not I exercise common sense and conservation which as a shooter should be and is my first prerogative, for we are stewards on this planet. It has not been given to us for destruction.

One of your great Americans, a Supreme Court judge and writer once said.
"I see no reason to impute to man a greater significance than to that of a baboon or a grain of sand." (Oliver Wendel Holmes)

Lastly, speaking of a runaway species there are 7.3 billion humans on this planet and even a planet is a finite system. If you know the story of Easter Island then you will appreciate my point..

Cheers....

 

[TG-5150]

What needs to be managed is man's stupidity, especially that of our corrupt politicians. The wolf is not to blame. It is merely trying to survive after having evolved for millions of years.
It is man's dominion and stupidity which has undermined nature's balance, not to mention his greed and lack of knowledge considering many topics such as the wolf and elk. It does not take a great reservior of knowledge to know that the global wolf thanks to us is in great decline and on the run. Thus leading to infestation of runaway species such as the coyote which has become endemic here in the east in the last 30 to 40 years. Never saw one before. I kill dozens of them each year and it does not appear to be making a dint. The eastern red wolf kept them out but man in his wisdom for all practical purposes exterminated that species which once roamed the entire eastern part of the continent. Recently, a small population has been discovered in southern Algonquin Park in Ontario Canada. I am certain the boneheads will be shooting them also.
Where have the bison gone? Where have the grizzlies gone? where have the cougars gone? etc. etc. As I post this our footprint on this planet is putting an end to many species which have evolved and prospered over millenia.
The wolf or any sentient creature has as many rights to the elk as you. If you think otherwise then you are not an educated individual as is the wolf. Wolves are social animals like us. Hence, like us if you kill their pack leaders it generally creates turmoil and death for the entire pack for they lias us pass down their know how to the next generation. Hence without leadership they all perish.

I have no qualm re shooting anything so long as the population in the region is stable. If not I exercise common sense and conservation which as a shooter should be and is my first prerogative, for we are stewards on this planet. It has not been given to us for destruction.

One of your great Americans, a Supreme Court judge and writer once said.
"I see no reason to impute to man a greater significance than to that of a baboon or a grain of sand." (Oliver Wendel Holmes)

Lastly, speaking of a runaway species there are 7.3 billion humans on this planet and even a planet is a finite system. If you know the story of Easter Island then you will appreciate my point..

Cheers....

That's a lot for a first reply, but I see what you are doing HERE

 

[BigGrizz]

What needs to be managed is man's stupidity, especially that of our corrupt politicians. The wolf is not to blame. It is merely trying to survive after having evolved for millions of years.
It is man's dominion and stupidity which has undermined nature's balance, not to mention his greed and lack of knowledge considering many topics such as the wolf and elk. It does not take a great reservior of knowledge to know that the global wolf thanks to us is in great decline and on the run. Thus leading to infestation of runaway species such as the coyote which has become endemic here in the east in the last 30 to 40 years. Never saw one before. I kill dozens of them each year and it does not appear to be making a dint. The eastern red wolf kept them out but man in his wisdom for all practical purposes exterminated that species which once roamed the entire eastern part of the continent. Recently, a small population has been discovered in southern Algonquin Park in Ontario Canada. I am certain the boneheads will be shooting them also.
Where have the bison gone? Where have the grizzlies gone? where have the cougars gone? etc. etc. As I post this our footprint on this planet is putting an end to many species which have evolved and prospered over millenia.
The wolf or any sentient creature has as many rights to the elk as you. If you think otherwise then you are not an educated individual as is the wolf. Wolves are social animals like us. Hence, like us if you kill their pack leaders it generally creates turmoil and death for the entire pack for they lias us pass down their know how to the next generation. Hence without leadership they all perish.

I have no qualm re shooting anything so long as the population in the region is stable. If not I exercise common sense and conservation which as a shooter should be and is my first prerogative, for we are stewards on this planet. It has not been given to us for destruction.

One of your great Americans, a Supreme Court judge and writer once said.
"I see no reason to impute to man a greater significance than to that of a baboon or a grain of sand." (Oliver Wendel Holmes)

Lastly, speaking of a runaway species there are 7.3 billion humans on this planet and even a planet is a finite system. If you know the story of Easter Island then you will appreciate my point..

Cheers....

The demise of the population of Easter Island is only theorized as a case of over consumption and a lack of conservancy. Economists and business professors love to spout that one as a teachable case. However, I think you miss the point altogether.

You, nor I have zero idea of what the balance really should be, and how we should fit into it. Also, wolves like any other predator must compete with us. You on the East coast can feel as philanthropic and naturalistic as you want about it, but there are winners and losers in competitions and I'm on Team Human. So the idea that we need to find balance is just as political as saying we need to kill them all. I can see a need in Yellowstone and other protected areas where populations are left unmanaged, but outside of those areas is a completely different matter. Outside of the parks those predators are in our world.

I'm also discounting everything you said because you attempt to finish with an implication that we're overpopulating this planet. Do you suggest genocide? I know of several environmentalists that subscribe to that idea for the sake of the planet.

(Ignore the "East Coast" comment. I see you're from Canada. The sentiment still applies.)

 

[TG-5150]

The demise of the population of Easter Island is only theorized as a case of over consumption and a lack of conservancy. Economists and business professors love to spout that one as a teachable case. However, I think you miss the point altogether.

You, nor I have zero idea of what the balance really should be, and how we should fit into it. Also, wolves like any other predator must compete with us. You on the East coast can feel as philanthropic and naturalistic as you want about it, but there are winners and losers in competitions and I'm on Team Human. So the idea that we need to find balance is just as political as saying we need to kill them all. I can see a need in Yellowstone and other protected areas where populations are left unmanaged, but outside of those areas is a completely different matter. Outside of the parks those predators are in our world.

I'm also discounting everything you said because you attempt to finish with an implication that we're overpopulating this planet. Do you suggest genocide? I know of several environmentalists that subscribe to that idea for the sake of the planet.

(Ignore the "East Coast" comment. I see you're from Canada. The sentiment still applies.)

That's kinda the direction I was getting at with my reply, just not good with words sometimes. Well put, sir.

 

[Ndfarmer]

Many things contributed to the near extinction of the American Bison, however Ulysses S. Grant saw the destruction of buffalo as "a solution to the country's Indian problem". "Every Buffalo killed is another Indian gone". A way to starve Native Americans into submission...J Weston Pippen May 13 2016 In the 16th century North America contained over 25-30 million Buffalo and by the 1880's less than 100 inhabited the northern plains primarily from overhunting and an intentional plan to eradicate the Indians main food source. (Wikipedia). This IS ANOTHER THREAD IN ITSELF, The wolf was eradicated by poisoning and trapping with a bounty on its ear, directly influenced by the great wolf wars of Europe after the sight of wolves feeding on human bodies brought to the hillside, out of villages during the black plague in Europe. Please look it up.

If you actually do research what was said by the hunter is correct. There were never enough buffalo killed by hunters to kill off the buffalo. the numbers for each year would not have even killed off that years calf crop. There were newspapers with accounts of herds of buffalo dead from disease. More than likely from cattle.

 

[Ndfarmer]

Not saying that the result wasn't what was wanted

 

[HARPERC]

"Man's stupidity" would presume some kind of universally accepted "brilliance". Having been lumped in with the baboons, it's quite a turn around to consider "man" should know better, or offer stewardship.
Lots accept 7 billion as too many, not many volunteering to leave. Given Canadian population density perhaps a more populated country should be able to dictate immigration to level it out. As merely a hairless baboon am I now entitled to prey on my neighbors livestock?
Which circling back to the discussion of wolves accounts for why once the population reached agreed on numbers they weren't trapped and transplanted to states without their fair share (grizzlies as well) is nobody wants them in their backyard.
Which speaking of grizzlies was the impact wolves killing a large percent of their food supply factored in, or the increase in conflicts due to their spreading out beyond the park? Should they be allowed to munch caribou to extinction?
Wolves are in decline world wide because where ever they're found, whatever sub species is involved they share the the common behaviors that make them ****** neighbors.

 

[TG-5150]

If you actually do research what was said by the hunter is correct. There were never enough buffalo killed by hunters to kill off the buffalo. the numbers for each year would not have even killed off that years calf crop. There were newspapers with accounts of herds of buffalo dead from disease. More than likely from cattle.

It's no secret that the Bighorn Mountains used to have a huge wild sheep population, but they cannot cohabit with the domestic sheep for the same reason.
How come they can't transplant Bighorn Sheep back to their histotic ranges and kick the she.....
O.k., I'll quit

 

[Harley Parmenter]

As I said, many things contributed to the near extinction of the Buffalo, as did the Moose, cougar, elk... etc. in my home state of Michigan. The grouse I hunt will soon go on an endangered list according to the Grouse society. Reintroduction of a species always has consequence. I hope we can all agree as hunters AND non hunters we need to address this issue so that we never have to reintroduce the elk, and mule deer to our western states because we did nit band together and recognize the many factors (including wolves), that decimated these great herds.

 

[Knight Templar]

You, nor I have zero idea of what the balance really should be,

I have no intention of debating an issue with an individual who does not know the definition of 'Theory'.
Suffice it to say that your conjecture should be backed up by fact.
Fact... Since the advent of our species some 77% of the wildlife has dissappeared.
Fact... Ten percent of that has occured since 1980.

Before you begin to grasp at straws..Those figures do not suggest that we are responsible completely for the 77% but they do illustrate a glaring fact that we bear a great deal of responsibility and cannot afford to exterminate species, because in doing so ours is also on the conveyor belt..

I do not indulge in 'peeing' contests.

"Pax hominibus bonae voluntatis, hinc in vitam quid faciemus, in aeternam resonat."
Latin... "Peace to men of good will, for what we do in life echoes through eternity."

Have an Happy New Year...

 

[Barrelnut]

Before you begin to grasp at straws..Those figures do not suggest that we are responsible completely for the 77% but they do illustrate a glaring fact that we bear a great deal of responsibility and cannot afford to exterminate species, because in doing so ours is also on the conveyor belt..

Obviously your not so theoretical yourself. By your example, we should bring back Smallpox and Polio. Those are species too. I think man can actually enhance his chances of NOT going extinct by manipulating certain species of competitors. Maybe after the 3rd or 4th world war, some might be saying, i wish we hadn't fed so many elk to the wolves.
Sure could use some to feed us now.