Are wolves really the problem

[oldmossy]

I know what happens when I cross paths with a predator. Enough said!

 

[Broz]

the killing of the 176 by 2 wolves is bs, not possible for 2 wolves to kill that many sheep and pile them up. they may have spooked them and they ran off that cliff where the pictures shows them dead.

I guess you would have to see for yourself the way cattle and sheep react to a pack of wolves passing through to understand that indeed the wolves did kill the sheep. And I am sure the pack was more than 2. It was just a few years ago that the wolves killed 121 sheep in one night down by Dillon MT. I have seen first hand how cattle run through fences, stop at nothing and huddle in bunches when wolves pass through and chase them. So if the wolves run them through the fence or off a cliff and the animal dies, did the wolves not kill them?

You sound more like you have a problem with the native Americans than wolves. I do not. I have never seen a native American kill anything and leave it to rot. The ones I know would use every bit of it and I think you are misinformed.

Just my opinion.

Good day.

Jeff

 

[MontanaRifleman]

the killing of the 176 by 2 wolves is bs, not possible for 2 wolves to kill that many sheep and pile them up. they may have spooked them and they ran off that cliff where the pictures shows them dead.
Im sure wolves kill their share but it is also the poachers/native americans killing trophy bulls as well as the spikes before they can bread that are doing in the population. without a mature population to bread you will have less calves in the future. just like the guys that go crabbing in wa. they take the crabs that are not legal as females that they are not suppose to catch and they over fish/crab areas. with poaching on the rise as well as NA tribs going out and killing bulls for ritual purposes hurts the over all numbers since gf cannot track that. If you want the herds to improve need to do something about the poachers. if you break the law once you will break it again. if poachers lost everything, trucks, guns, atv's, campers you name it then it might stop. the youtube vids where gf set up the fake deer and elk shows just how worthless the fines are. NA tribes in wa, nm are right next to the national forests and they chase the big game onto the reservations.

Did you read the article on the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd that I linked in post #8? A large portion of the herd's range is in Yellowstone National Park. There is no poaching there other than maybe a handful animals and there are no Indian reservations near it. There is no more poaching going on now than before the wolves.

And just how do you "chase" wild animals like elk from one place to another over wild and rough terrain? Elk go where they want to go and there's no chasing them anywhere.

 

[JackinSD]

I'll chime in and agree with both of the last two posts. Looking more like you have a problem with the Native American community then with wolves. The proof is out there of wolf predatation. You may just have to look beyond your nose.

 

[Broz]

And just how do you "chase" wild animals like elk from one place to another over wild and rough terrain? Elk go where they want to go and there's no chasing them anywhere.

LOL, that is as true of a statement as could be made. But if you anyone would like to demonstrate the technique of elk chasing by ground, to a given place I would love to watch.



Jeff

 

[MontanaRifleman]

LOL, that is as true of a statement as could be made. But if you anyone would like to demonstrate the technique of elk chasing by ground, to a given place I would love to watch.



Jeff

That would make a good Youtube video wouldn't it ...

 

[longrangehuntr]

a helicopter was used as well as horses which i have been told by multiple ranchers they have moved elk like cattle, and killing the animal and leaving it or killing it and using every part of it, the animal(elk) is still dead. It was posted in this forum a bit ago about an elk was butchered for some ritual when it would have been a great breeding bull elk. like oldmossy said, just start killing the wolves then and the elk population will take off again. there is poaching everywhere. dudes such as Don Lewis made videos of hunting elk in yellowstone. killed as many as 13 bulls which would do some damage to any herd. 21-year-old Travis Mark Johnson and 25-year-old Vincent Giovanni Ripoli of Bozeman, Michael David Belderrain, Stephen Slavinsky who was already in trouble for poaching a first time in yellowstone. there are two other stories of bull elk carcasses being found and no one being caught. If you don't think that poaching has anything to do with the decline of the elk population think again. im sure the wolves play a part as well. I want to shoot a few wolves myself as well as mountain lions and bears. What kind of food to animal ratio is there in yellowstone in the winter? I would like some video of wolves moving though and taking out an entire herd of sheep, cattle, elk whatever before i will believe that it is just the wolves. with G&F this stupid mismanagement of elk and not being able to have the habitat to support the growth of the herd will play a part. just like the quail and pheasant pops in the mid west. weather and habitat play a huge part in why they both are low unlike back in the day.

 

[cohunter14]

a helicopter was used as well as horses which i have been told by multiple ranchers they have moved elk like cattle, and killing the animal and leaving it or killing it and using every part of it, the animal(elk) is still dead. It was posted in this forum a bit ago about an elk was butchered for some ritual when it would have been a great breeding bull elk. like oldmossy said, just start killing the wolves then and the elk population will take off again. there is poaching everywhere. dudes such as Don Lewis made videos of hunting elk in yellowstone. killed as many as 13 bulls which would do some damage to any herd. 21-year-old Travis Mark Johnson and 25-year-old Vincent Giovanni Ripoli of Bozeman, Michael David Belderrain, Stephen Slavinsky who was already in trouble for poaching a first time in yellowstone. there are two other stories of bull elk carcasses being found and no one being caught. If you don't think that poaching has anything to do with the decline of the elk population think again. im sure the wolves play a part as well. I want to shoot a few wolves myself as well as mountain lions and bears. What kind of food to animal ratio is there in yellowstone in the winter? I would like some video of wolves moving though and taking out an entire herd of sheep, cattle, elk whatever before i will believe that it is just the wolves. with G&F this stupid mismanagement of elk and not being able to have the habitat to support the growth of the herd will play a part. just like the quail and pheasant pops in the mid west. weather and habitat play a huge part in why they both are low unlike back in the day.

I understand your concern on poachers and native americans, but picture it this way: who will kill more elk, 100 poachers/native americans or 100 wolves? And there are far more wolves out there than there are poachers and native americans that are killing elk...

 

[oldmossy]

There was a show on the outdoor channel last fall which showed a pack of wolves in Montana killing elk for fun. The elk sorta looked as if they could not run or had nowhere to run. (If memory serves correct.) It's no wonder they devestate the population.

I hunted trout creek Montana 2 years ago. I spoke to another hunter who had been hunting there for 20 years. He said the elk population was so bad now, that he wouldn't be back.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I understand your concern on poachers and native americans, but picture it this way: who will kill more elk, 100 poachers/native americans or 100 wolves? And there are far more wolves out there than there are poachers and native americans that are killing elk...

Good way of putting it... 1 wolf will kill about 20 elk per year... not hard to do the math

 

[mtnwrunner]

The title of this thread was "Are the wolves really the problem." Well, not really. Its all the idiots that transplanted them. And continue to protect them.
In this last presidential election, one of the slogans was, "It's the economy, stupid."
Well, "It's the wolves stupid." Period.

Randy

 

[MontanaRifleman]

a helicopter was used as well as horses which i have been told by multiple ranchers they have moved elk like cattle, and killing the animal and leaving it or killing it and using every part of it, the animal(elk) is still dead. It was posted in this forum a bit ago about an elk was butchered for some ritual when it would have been a great breeding bull elk. like oldmossy said, just start killing the wolves then and the elk population will take off again. there is poaching everywhere. dudes such as Don Lewis made videos of hunting elk in yellowstone. killed as many as 13 bulls which would do some damage to any herd. 21-year-old Travis Mark Johnson and 25-year-old Vincent Giovanni Ripoli of Bozeman, Michael David Belderrain, Stephen Slavinsky who was already in trouble for poaching a first time in yellowstone. there are two other stories of bull elk carcasses being found and no one being caught. If you don't think that poaching has anything to do with the decline of the elk population think again. im sure the wolves play a part as well. I want to shoot a few wolves myself as well as mountain lions and bears. What kind of food to animal ratio is there in yellowstone in the winter? I would like some video of wolves moving though and taking out an entire herd of sheep, cattle, elk whatever before i will believe that it is just the wolves. with G&F this stupid mismanagement of elk and not being able to have the habitat to support the growth of the herd will play a part. just like the quail and pheasant pops in the mid west. weather and habitat play a huge part in why they both are low unlike back in the day.

Like I said... "...except a handful" Your Yellowstone poaching examples are less than trivial to what was once a 19,000 animal herd. Whenever a poacher is caught in YNP, it is big news in this country like the examples above... and, no Native Americans in helicopters, atv's, horses or whatever rounding up elk either. That would be HUGE news and not something that could be hidden or covered up in this country.

Ranchers might be able to haze elk (which is against the law in this and most states) with helicopters and whatever, but they sure will never be able to herd and drive them anywhere like cattle and sheep, and if you knew anything about elk, you would know that. So based on your statements, you do not live in elk and wolf country, nor do you know much about elk.

So I don't know where you come from, but it sure isn't Montana, Wyoming or Idaho. There are laws against hazing and interfering with wildlife and if anyone was to attempt it on the near scale you are talking about the game cops would be all over them. and as far as poaching goes, there are game check stations all over Montana on the major roads. There might be a few poacher that get away with some poaching but with current technology it is much harder to get away with poaching than it was years ago. The level of poaching you are talking about would exceed the annual harvest in those areas. You are living in some fantasy world.

Wolves kill 120 sheep near Dillon, Mont. - Spokesman.com - Aug. 28, 2009

https://www.facebook.com/SaveWesternWildlife

 

[bigngreen]

a helicopter was used as well as horses which i have been told by multiple ranchers they have moved elk like cattle, and killing the animal and leaving it or killing it and using every part of it, the animal(elk) is still dead. It was posted in this forum a bit ago about an elk was butchered for some ritual when it would have been a great breeding bull elk. like oldmossy said, just start killing the wolves then and the elk population will take off again. there is poaching everywhere. dudes such as Don Lewis made videos of hunting elk in yellowstone. killed as many as 13 bulls which would do some damage to any herd. 21-year-old Travis Mark Johnson and 25-year-old Vincent Giovanni Ripoli of Bozeman, Michael David Belderrain, Stephen Slavinsky who was already in trouble for poaching a first time in yellowstone. there are two other stories of bull elk carcasses being found and no one being caught. If you don't think that poaching has anything to do with the decline of the elk population think again. im sure the wolves play a part as well. I want to shoot a few wolves myself as well as mountain lions and bears. What kind of food to animal ratio is there in yellowstone in the winter? I would like some video of wolves moving though and taking out an entire herd of sheep, cattle, elk whatever before i will believe that it is just the wolves. with G&F this stupid mismanagement of elk and not being able to have the habitat to support the growth of the herd will play a part. just like the quail and pheasant pops in the mid west. weather and habitat play a huge part in why they both are low unlike back in the day.

Your ignorance to this subject is astonishing!! We set on several elk herds trying to take out wolves that predate on them and not once did we see a poacher, Indian or Don Lewis or even tracks from them but we did see wolves chasing elk, wolf tracks consistently behind them so if the people who are spending large amounts of time with these elk are running into wolves but no poachers or Indians then how does that add up!!
Poachers leave tracks, for over three months my buddy and I were the only people to watch a herd of elk, nobody came into or out of the area but the wolf sign was significant, that does not lie!!!!

The herd of sheep that Broz talked about down in Dillon belong to a friend of mine, there were 147 sheep strung out over a draw of sage brush. Heck a pair coyotes will come in and kill half a dozen without much issue a pack of wolves training pups a 100 plus would be not an issue!!
Another friend had 11 yearling steers killed along a two track on pasture, you could see where the wolves ran them down the road and jerked the front shoulders out till they piled up then went past and took the next one.

It seems you will not believe people who have lived on the land for generations and are in it every day but you will believe liberals who have not set a foot in the areas they are talking about, go figure!!!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

dudes such as Don Lewis made videos of hunting elk in yellowstone. killed as many as 13 bulls which would do some damage to any herd.

I will add, that about 5-6 years ago, when wolves first showed up in this country, I was walking my Yellow Lab with pups on the USFS access road that runs through the Flying D Ranch SW of Bozeman. A ranchhand driving by stopped to warn me about a pack wolves that was in the area saying they tried to draw off and kill his Aussie when he was out horn hunting with it. He also told me that in the last month or so, they had killed 30 bull elk. He said they knew exactly the moment a bull would drop his antlers and be on him. 30 bulls in just one month. That is just one pack and one month. Wake up.