This is whats wrong with hunting today

[Earnhardt]

Wannabe.com…..

I will repeat what others have said…post a video and get the clueless/mindless to click, follow, monetize….
As others have said, the Sheep are following the Wannabe's, and the Sheep are making the Wannabe's rich.
Are you one of these Sheep?

there are many people/hunters/shooters that are attention seeking brats…like a spoiled child

But now people can make large amounts of money, by being clueless wannabe attention seeking brats, Through sponsorships and monetization of followers.

BUT… I will also state what has become very obvious to ME, there are many of these attention seeking brats on this forum, LRH (and other forums) I know I'm not the only one to notice this…

remember the "good ol' days" of an LRH thread that was so informative it was mind blowing?…no opinions, just facts!

Now some are using LRH like a facebook page…very little information, a lot of opinion, and a ton of, "LOOK AT ME"

I'm sorry, but if you think YouTube is the only place where the Wannabe.com movement is happening is going on, you are mistaken..it is alive and well, right here

4 years ago and beyond, people would make posts here that were entirely informative…I miss those days

I want more of the amazing pics of the great outdoors, or an animal alive on the hoof, is all of its glory?….(vs, a kill pic that is totally staged, showing off every brand of equipment you used on your "hunt")

I want the pre-covid LRH/shooting world back…

 

[del2les]

I'm not the manbun guy--I am also not an influencer. I will say I have shot a 22 creedmoor a good bit and some smaller calibers like 222, 223, 22-250,6 BR, 6 ARC 240 wby, 243, 25-06, 257 wby a lot, and at considered big game animals. With the right bullet they work. I'm not here to "measure up" to any one-- I am over 40 years old and hunted quite a few, game animals from varmints, wild sheep, to the largest game on earth.

Most people shoot better with a smaller caliber that kick and "bark" less--do I suggest someone go on a hunt with a subpar caliber--no--but I'll take a guy on a deer hunt shooting a 22-250 that shoots it well and accurately than a guy shooting a 300 win that has a terrible flinch.

Don't hate if you have not used a fast twisted larger capacity 22 with good bullets--it does good things when you put the bullets in the right place.

If you don't want to use one don't. I will say they are not for everyone---and not every situation, but my 11 year old is deadly with one--and my daughter has killed quite a few big game animals with a 22 creedmoor and 240 wby. So I guess only kids under 16 can kill animals with calibers 25 and less.

AMEN! I'm a little older than you, actually quite a bit and with children your age, and I have killed a fair amount of game with similar caliber/cartridges you list and others. Many of those were decades ago with bullets of the time, and many others with today's heavier VLD designs.

Modern "heavy for caliber" and especially the VLD types of bullets and some monos have changed the playing field for many "too small" calibers for hunting. Their increased vels at distance, higher BC's for reduced wind drift, and improved energies at range are not the old "varmint" bullets of old.

Now, before anyone goes down the "can't handle recoil", I shot several 50BMG's for many years and even fired a few rounds in a 20mm anti-tank shoulder fired rifle, and I still own and shoot several magnums in 30cal/338cal and up today. Not to mention those low recoiling 12ga 3" magnums in light shotguns.

While I have no care for the characters in any of these type of Utube vids, I also cannot throw out the baby with the bath water just because some people have little to no experience with "lesser" calibers with heavier, modern VLDs or some monos when used properly and accurately. YMMV

Edit to add: Many years ago, I took heat from various friends and others for many years over my 6mm's used on deer sized game out to 600yds, and a few well past that, as they did not understand the newer, varied heavier VLD bullets and improved ballistics and performance it allowed for those ranges. The ability to place the right bullet in the right spot when needed is by far more important to me.

I posted this in another thread on "minimum caliber for Montana deer". These are just a few of my 600yd and under deer loads. Though I have taken deer beyond 800yds with a 6mmR-AI:

25-06, 6mm-06, 6mmRem, 243W, 22/250-AI ( The 6's are loaded with 105's, 243 with Berger 105, 22/250 with 80gr)

 

[jamie eaton]

^^^^^^^^ You sir may now "drop the mic " This is why I'm a member here , for a lot longer a reader than a poster . Maybe we should go back to the " shooting at a human size target " that was a good one . Wonder what ever happened to her ? This was intended as a response to Earnhart . del2les types faster than me !

 

[Bang4theBuck]

I agree 100% that there is a lot of misinformation and deliberate overemphasis placed on things for the purpose of gaining a following, and all the 'rewards' that come with that. I have read enough on this thread to know that I will not be watching the video, so my comment is do not directly relate to the video, they relate to subject matter (are 22 cal bullets too small for effective terminal performance).

I just wanted to say that there are a lot of really smart, consistent, ethical hunters that hold on strongly to what has or has not worked for them, as they should. If you aren't learning from your experiences, and applying what you've learned, shame on you. That said, like everything in this world, technology has improved or atleast made possible things that were not previously possible, and mainstream things that used to be somewhat unthinkable.

Who would have thought that the common family grocery getter (even the nice ones) would be powered by 2.0L 4 banger making 260hp? That's as much as some of the big blocks from back in the day. How bold was it for Ford to put a v6 in its flagship.pick-up truck. GM is putting a 4 banger in their full size work trucks. You don't have to love it, but you do have acknowledge that it works and in many cases works well.

At the end of the day, as with many things these days, the extremes are what get people worked up and polarize us, like this video. If the title and content would have read more like....'Have you ever considered a small bore cartridge for big game hunting? Here's some results to share from our experiences', maybe we could all be learning and not feel so compelled to bash the guy (as he deserves).

 

[cajun]

I read the whole rock slide thread. There was some impressive wounding by the tmk and eld. I also listened to the podcast from the rockslide guys. The gist of it,bullet design matters. So while I have no doubt a 22 creed with the right bullet put in the right spot will kill. Heck one of my buddies grew up shooting a .222 and killed a pile of deer. But with the right bullet in 7mm it gives me more mass, more effective range and more margin for error.

 

[justinp61]

Sounds like one guy here has actual experience with 22cm and is quite happy with it.

A lot of others are saying what can't be done, with something they haven't experienced.

Bullet construction > bullet diameter

launching a heavy-for-caliber 70-90gr bullet (typical 6mm weights), with high BC, at over 3k muzzle velocity, doesn't sound too benign to me.

After reading most of the RS .223 thread, and seeing dozens of animals with fist sized holes in them, from 22 cal bullets, the extra capacity of the 22cm looks quite capable.

Wolf Precision uses 22cm for their long range shooting school, with no issues out to 1,000yds.

I'm not saying it's a 1k hunting round, but 500-600, it should do just fine. A 88gr ELDM will be above minimum expansion velocity past 700yds.

For me (the video) it has nothing to do with the caliber. It's about his "facts" and how they are presented. He was comparing an 80gr bullet in the creed to a 55gr bullet in the 250. In that scenario the creed wins hands down at long range. Run the same bullet in the 250 and make the comparison.

Honesty and integrity has slipped away from our world for the most part.

 

[Laguna Freak]

I'm partially posting this in response to the wonderful discussion @Huntnful started about smaller calibers. This is not a bash on small caliber hunters or anyone else for that matter (including the man in the video). Flash to the 5:50 mark and indulge. Please tell me that I'm not the only one who is shaking my head in disbelief that guys like this are presenting info to people as if the round is actually the "Ultimate hunting round" IMO this is preposterous, with highly inaccurate and incomplete comparisons. This is what's wrong with hunting and especially long range hunting these days. Wondering if I'm not the only one here?

Just proves you don't have to possess any rational thought to have a youtube channel.

 

[Aoudad shooter1975]

I agree with much of what you said especially for deer sized game and for kids where a smaller cartridge is always better.

Since you have lots of experience with one (and I don't), what would you consider the high end of the spectrum for a .22 Creedmore?
How does it perform in the wind and at longer ranges?

I'm not trying to bash, just trying to learn.

I absolutely love my .243 for deer but it'd have to be very close to an ideal situation before I'd use it on anything bigger.

I'd say it does fine. You have to put the bullet in the right place still..

By the thread it doesn't look it--but I'm a large bore guy--I love double rifles my whole life--I like hunting Africa and think my 375 weatherby is the bees knees, have a 358 Norma mag I shoot regularly, and think if you go to Asia hunting it hard to beat a 300 to 338 magnum of some ilk.

All I am saying if you have not tried a fast twisted 22 , they are easy to shoot accurately and suppress wonderful. I find most kiddos do better if the "bark" is taken out
2. If it is over a 75 grain bullet, it seems to punch well over caliber. We have mainly used 88 ELDs, and 80.5 grain bergers with a few 85.5 bergers --they work, but I will say all bullets were placed well and most of the game was at 420 yards and in. I have lost 2 game animals in my life one was an axis buck with a 6.5 grendel and I don't think I matched a good bullet, and one was with a 25-06 and on that one---IDont know...
3. Most of the game I hunt here are pigs, whitetail, axis, Aoudad ,varmints and a javalina every now and then gets shot..not the biggest game on the planet but I'll tell you the 22 CM works on all the above.

I end with this--I am lucky--as I hunt my own property most of the time. We have all the time in the world to pick and choose shots. If by some unfortunate event a bad shot does get made, I can usually go finish it up, and or there is not "big money" and expensive "guide time" running. We usually have all our gear with us (rangefinder, bipods, ranger, glass). Again I have friends that come and take a ram almost every year. I tell them to bring something they shoot well, and most bring a 7 mag or 30-06 or 300 mag of some ilk--and about every 5th or 6 th year one gets shot badly and it's usually from flinching or shooting in poor windy or high angle positions.

Again everyone mileage varies. I will continue to shoot my 22 CM as I like it. My father killed quite a few deer with a 218 bee and a 222, and my father in law probably shot more Aoudad than anyone I know this side of a guy I knew at Texas Parks and wildlife and his favorite was a 243 WSSM--would I suggest any of their "combos" to the masses--no. But I will tell you there is nothing wrong with a 22 CM and a good bullet on deer sized game.

Rant over--oh by the way even though I'm ranting --enjoy the content and conversation.

 

[VinceMule]

I have shot a few deer with a Rem 700 in 22/250 with the Nosler 60g Partition. The wounds are on par with a 30/06 with 150g bullets at least and some wounds are comparable to a 300 Winchester with a 150g at 3300 fps. A friend had an apple orchard with a depredation permit, he shot an old Sako with the 60g Partition and the wound damage was massive.

Long shots were out of the question for both of us, with 200 or so being our max. We did not push the distance as an ethical issue. I killed two does with a Rem 788 in 223 with 55g Winchesters using a load of 26.5g of Win 748 with a MV of 3100, does collapsed at 100 yards, lung shot.

I built two 22-243 AI 14 twists to shoot the 60g Sierra HP at 4000 fps in one barrel and 4100 in another longer barrel, deer are dead quick but I do not push the distance.

Minimalist-caliber deer hunters often speed junkies. A friend here shoots the 6 Gibbs with 70g Nosler ballistic tips at 4100 fps, he does shoot some distance, and he claims the deer do not run....hummm....

Something deep in your gut tells you that there is something unethical about using a bullet with little mass, sooner or later, you are going to lose an animal. I don't particularly appreciate seeing an animal run off with a horrific wound.

 

[del2les]

I have shot a few deer with a Rem 700 in 22/250 with the Nosler 60g Partition. The wounds are on par with a 30/06 with 150g bullets at least and some wounds are comparable to a 300 Winchester with a 150g at 3300 fps. A friend had an apple orchard with a depredation permit, he shot an old Sako with the 60g Partition and the wound damage was massive.

Long shots were out of the question for both of us, with 200 or so being our max. We did not push the distance as an ethical issue.

I built two 22-243 AI 14 twists to shoot the 60g Sierra HP at 4000 fps in one barrel and 4100 in another longer barrel, deer are dead quick but I do not push the distance.

Minimalist-caliber deer hunters often speed junkies. A friend here shoots the 6 Gibbs with 70g Nosler ballistic tips at 4100 fps, he does shoot some distance, and he claims the deer do not run....hummm....

Something deep in your gut tells you that there is something unethical about using a bullet with little mass, sooner or later, you are going to lose an animal. I don't particularly appreciate seeing an animal run off with a horrific wound.

Not always, for many of us go the other way with heavy for caliber, high BC bullets with good sectional densities. I run 80-88's in my 22/250-AI and 73-77's in my standard 22/250 in 1/9"tw. My 6's run 105's mostly, but I am about to start trying the 108gr Bergers.

 

[azsugarbear]

This calls to mind the famed writer Jack O'Conner and his touting of the 270 Win. caliber in his articles. He and Elmer Keith used to go back and forth about the stopping ability of big bores vs. smaller calibers in the hands of a true rifleman. So eventually, Jack went over to Africa and took nearly all species of African game with the venerable 270. Although I have not read all his writings on the matter, I believe his point was that accuracy can trump caliber size. Was it a stunt? Possibly. But his point was made. But he never touted the 270 as a "do all" caliber for every man in every situation. Therein lies the difference between then and now.

 

[VinceMule]

The Type of terrain you hunt can be critical. If an animal runs 200 yards in open country, no big deal. If the animal runs 200 yards from where I hunt, I will likely use a dog to track the animal. The issue of Open country or woodland terrain density will be a fundamental issue in choosing a 22 caliber. As time goes on, 22 caliber guys will bring much to light good and bad.

 

[del2les]

The Type of terrain you hunt can be critical. If an animal runs 200 yards in open country, no big deal. If the animal runs 200 yards from where I hunt, I will likely use a dog to track the animal. The issue of Open country or woodland terrain density will be a fundamental issue in choosing a 22 caliber. As time goes on, 22 caliber guys will bring much to light good and bad.

No doubt. But when I lived in the Deep South and hunted large woodlots, bean fields, dense river bottoms and swampy areas and thickets, I "sometimes" hunted with a 222 or 223 using Sierra 63gr SMP's. Mostly stand, slow stalk or beside a tree, I killed several deer and most dropped in their tracks. I can only recall one in the early 1980's that ran about 60-70yds, and it was a 250lb buck I had shot at about 75yds with a 55gr Hornady from a 222. The bullet went through both lungs with a fair amount of damage and completely broke into pieces on a rib on the far side. That caused me to change to the 63's for those calibers.

Here in the West, I have witnessed and experienced myself a few game animals travel fair distances after impacts from large magnums and various larger calibers that required multiple hits. So sometimes, caliber is no indication of rapid incapacitation. I've seen similar in the South with various 7mm's, 30 cals, 35's and even a friends 444 Marlin.

 

[southpa]

When I first watched this video It was so cringe. But I couldn't look away, I kept hoping for some sort of real comparison to pull from it and it just wasn't happening. Did anyone else find themselves yelling out loud at the device they were watching it on, similar to how you'd yell at the windshield at an idiot driver haha. Just shaking my head in disbelief. This kind of stuff is all over the place.