This is whats wrong with hunting today

[skipglo]

I don't think....just me here...that any discussion on the DOD using 556/223 is very relevant in the transition between shooting 2 legged GAME vs 4 legged....I personally have never seen any man or woman active in field engagement.....that weighed over 300 lbs....might be one! I've just never seen it. So if the discussion goes beyond Deer..... where's the comparison? Just me here! When the distance opens up with DOD field that's when the right tools for right job come out...the 300''s , .338s, and 50's.....hunting can be different...modern science....but SHOULD IT? One man's thoughts...

 

[300WSMGUY]

I'm partially posting this in response to the wonderful discussion @Huntnful started about smaller calibers. This is not a bash on small caliber hunters or anyone else for that matter (including the man in the video). Flash to the 5:50 mark and indulge. Please tell me that I'm not the only one who is shaking my head in disbelief that guys like this are presenting info to people as if the round is actually the "Ultimate hunting round" IMO this is preposterous, with highly inaccurate and incomplete comparisons. This is what's wrong with hunting and especially long range hunting these days. Wondering if I'm not the only one here?

No sir you're not the only one.

 

[cajun]

I'm not here to argue, but you did use a 160gr bullet for your initial example.

And the 160 is .338 vs .27

 

[KsKevin]

And the 160 is .338 vs .27

I think we are on the same page as the general trend is higher BCs as you go up in caliber. All I was saying is BC is THE metric that determines wind drift. Most may already know that but some may not so I was simply trying to provide an educational point as to how to compare affects of wind drift which is using BC.

 

[Casscade]

I can't stand this guy, brand or his channel. Too many arrests and charges of trespassing or other related crimes that I don't have any interest.

Yeah seems like it may be better to stick to giving poaching advice.

 

[SheepShapeAK]

I've never even heard of or seen this guy until I stumbled onto this post.

That .22 Creedmoore is cute, and fitting for people who wear flat brim hats.

 

[Dragoon300]

Up front, I have never seen him or this video before. I did watch the whole thing and tried to be objective. It is my opinion that the rifle he had built is a very nice rifle. I doubt anyone here would turn it down if it were given to them, I know would'nt. He also stated doing it over again he would go with a 24" barrel. This would be an improvement, personally I would go 26" on that platform, and 31" on my DTA. Infact I just may do one. I have loved the 220 Swift all my life, my Dad bought one in 1958. The data displayed on the video in the comparison was accurate, just not apple's to Apple's bullet wise. It was more a factory standard comparison. I definitely would not consider shooting that bear with it unless it was in defense, but it did kill the bear. Damage wise it did quite a lot, that's the main dislike with high speed 22's when lung shots are made, they destroy too much meet. However, with proper shot placement to the head / neck they are quite good killers on Deer sized game. I was just comparing the 22 CM to the Swift, and they are close enough to each-other capacity wise, and the CM brass is easier to get and arguably better designed, and will function in my DTA way better than my 223 WSSM does. (it's way too short to cycle properly) The thing is you must choose the bullet you want to use and then the twist to suit. Fast light 22's out to 400 yards are flat shooting fun and accurate! In any event, rifles are like golf clubs, choose the right one for the shot!
We are all in this together, we are all opinionated, and hopefully all willing to learn!
Enjoy your shooting, encourage others to, and tell everyone to VOTE!

 

[nksmfamjp]

Flash to the 5:50 mark and indulge. Please tell me that I'm not the only one who is shaking my head in disbelief that guys like this are presenting info to people as if the round is actually the "Ultimate hunting round"

All he is really showing is that an 80-90gr 22 bullets were introduced way after the Swift and the 22-250….ok, so. Do they not make throating reamers and fast twist 22 barrels? Those cases will all push the bigger bullet.

Then there is the bear shot. He hit it in the heart. Why didn't it just drop? If he hits it in the lungs or clips a lung, what happens? Hits a leg bone or shoulder knuckle? Still good? He will watch a big animal run away some day that is hit well enough to kill it…..just he will not be able to find it because it just went too far on a mediocre shot.

I'd rather have a 28 cal or bigger on bear. Maybe deer are fine with a mono metal 6mm or 22, but you really need more toughness for when you hit something solid.

The good point he is missing is good shooting is promoted by low recoil guns and these smaller calibers used with precision are great hunting rounds….im still not sold on 22 cal bullets, but 6mm, probably.

 

[fta0303]

I'm partially posting this in response to the wonderful discussion @Huntnful started about smaller calibers. This is not a bash on small caliber hunters or anyone else for that matter (including the man in the video). Flash to the 5:50 mark and indulge. Please tell me that I'm not the only one who is shaking my head in disbelief that guys like this are presenting info to people as if the round is actually the "Ultimate hunting round" IMO this is preposterous, with highly inaccurate and incomplete comparisons. This is what's wrong with hunting and especially long range hunting these days. Wondering if I'm not the only one here?

Getting excited about less than a half inch of drop is absolutely ridiculous. Learning your rifle/cartridge and the external ballistics is the key to good use.

 

[fta0303]

I wonder how long before some "I am not responsible for my actions" doofus gets a visit from Mr Green Jeans about wonton waste of a game animal because the caliber they chose wasn't sufficient and they point out all this statistical data online that suggest they chose right.

Whether it's a 375 or a 223, if you are not sending rounds down range with some regularity, you will see the same results. A poorly placed small bullet is a poorly placed small bullet, a big fat heavy poorly placed bullet is still a poorly placed bullet, but has a higher probability of ending in success.

I am not knocking the smaller calibers at all, but I have two words for those that think it's a great idea for the average hunter to use a small caliber: "Milkjug Challenge"

The caliber/bullet is not the problem, it's the nut on the trigger.

The truth. A man's equipment is seldom what determines his effectiveness. We all love a new rifle in a new caliber, because we're nuts. If your just looking for a capable tool, get a good .30-06 and take advantage of the great variety of bullets loaded in it. If you want longer range, get a .300 mag. The rest of it is all gravy, fun but not so much needed.

 

[fta0303]

This calls to mind the famed writer Jack O'Conner and his touting of the 270 Win. caliber in his articles. He and Elmer Keith used to go back and forth about the stopping ability of big bores vs. smaller calibers in the hands of a true rifleman. So eventually, Jack went over to Africa and took nearly all species of African game with the venerable 270. Although I have not read all his writings on the matter, I believe his point was that accuracy can trump caliber size. Was it a stunt? Possibly. But his point was made. But he never touted the 270 as a "do all" caliber for every man in every situation. Therein lies the difference between then and now.

and after all was said and done, Jack said that the .30-06 was the "better" cartridge....! It's a tough subject when a man can't even agree with himself !

 

[fta0303]

"Recoil sensitive?" My uncle was a WWII veteran and Marine. When I asked him what rifle I should get, he said "The one that won 2 World Wars." The first time I shot an ought 6, I was told "It's gonna kick like a mule, be ready." If I showed the least that it hurt, which it didn't, I would've been disowned. I've seen a great deal of people with Kewpie doll hairstyles calling themselves "Men" that say "If you want to shoot, but don't like the recoil, try this gun..."
I say if you can't take the recoil, buy your meat from the grocery store.

There is going to be a certain amount of recoil, isn't there? As I was growing up learning to shoot, I relished the challenge of shooting things that recoil ! I bought a Ruger Magnum Safari in .458 Lott 25 years ago, just because I always wanted an elephant rifle. The recoil is a bit vicious with 500 gr bullets at 2300 fps. It will put 4 out of 5 into 1/2" at 50 yards off the bench using the factory irons. I don't shoot it much and I now have something of a collector's item and a very fine rifle. But if we ever have an elephant infestation here in south central washington state, I'm ready. I also was shooting a .44 Mag when I was 11; took me a while to beat the flinch. Also ran thousands of 22 LR through a 1911 with a Colt conversion unit. WIth all of that, though wasn't much of a hunter; I killed one jack rabbit in all that time.

At about 11, I was packing a SAA .45 Colt w/ 7.4 " bbl. Loaded with my own handloads, 260 gr Lyman 454424 over 9 grains of Unique (don't use this load, it won't blow up your gun but a steady diet will shake it loose) Hiking up a sagebrush hill. I came up on a jack rabbit sitting by a sagebush about 20 feet away. Chuckling to myself, I confidently drew the .45 and emptied all 5 shots at that rabbit, never hitting it. I was starting to reload for another go when I thought, hey , you've had your chance, let the rabbit have his. So i threw a rock at him and he ambled off unhurriedly. Later, I learned to hit what I was shooting at. Although I never equaled my Father, who could drop a running jack at 75 yards with that pistol.

 

[fta0303]

I've killed 95% of the big game with a .270 or 7 Rem mag with a Leupold scope, no can or muzzle brake, and no range finder. I don't fit in with the long range guys , my longest kills are just over 500 yds. I guided deer and elk hunts for over 20 years and it's my opinion that it takes more gun than the 6.5 creed unless in the hands of a marksman. It seems like the least experienced hunters shoot the weak calibers due to recoil and the hunters that carry the bigger ones can shoot them… kinda opposite of how it should be. I've killed 1200 pound beef cattle with a .22 pistol, but I would never say that you should hunt big game with one.

....a lot of cattle have died at the hands of a man using a killing bolt. My family had a slaughterhouse 100 years ago; cost of ammunition was an issue, and the killing bolt cost nothing per kill, at an initial investment lower than a irfle or pistol. It would maybe work on a coastal grizzly, if you could get close enough and get him to stand still....

 

[fta0303]

yes sir. you can't kill a deer with nothing less than a 338. actually i think that is marginal.

and if that fails, you can use it as a club.... much heavier, slower yet projectile..