This is whats wrong with hunting today

[MTbackwoods]

I like to think back to the advice "Use enough gun. Not enough for when conditions are perfect but enough for when they aint."
In my opinion, which is just that, is that will a .22 Creedmore kill a deer dead?
Absofreakinglutely.
Is it "The Ultimate"?
Not for me.
That's my opinion.
But I don't make money off trying to convince newbies that it is, either.

Fair enough statement. But wouldn't you also agree that the newbies would benefit more from a low recoiling rifle that they can shoot very well?

 

[MtPockets]

Fair enough statement. But wouldn't you also agree that the newbies would benefit more from a low recoiling rifle that they can shoot very well?

Absolutely.
My heartburn comes from calling it things like "Ultimate", they get the idea that it'll kill a deer (for example) at whatever distance they want.
I start all newbies out with a .243, and that has worked very well, but I also go over limitations with them and sure as heck don't claim its the ultimate.

 

[southpa]

Fair enough statement. But wouldn't you also agree that the newbies would benefit more from a low recoiling rifle that they can shoot very well?

I feel like the correlation that's used for "newbies" and young hunters is leaned on a tad too much. With anything, there's extremes but why do we always have to pretend that unless are a seasoned vet or an adult, that shooting large calibers accurately is so hard. I'm sorry but this is just not true. I could provide plenty of examples but that would be a generalization. Just as generalizing that newbies or youngers cannot handle burning more powder than a Creedmoor case. Larger calibers can be shot just as accurate and consistent as a 22 Creedmoor, by all ages and levels in the spectrum. This is a simple fact.

But again, this thread is about misrepresenting the facts and misleading the public with and inflated opinion that what you think is fact as it relates to shooting/hunting....

 

[MTbackwoods]

I feel like the correlation that's used for "newbies" and young hunters is leaned on a tad too much. With anything, there's extremes but why do we always have to pretend that unless are a seasoned vet or an adult, that shooting large calibers accurately is so hard. I'm sorry but this is just not true. I could provide plenty of examples but that would be a generalization. Just as generalizing that newbies or youngers cannot handle burning more powder than a Creedmoor case. Larger calibers can be shot just as accurate and consistent as a 22 Creedmoor, by all ages and levels in the spectrum. This is a simple fact.

But again, this thread is about misrepresenting the facts and misleading the public with and inflated opinion that what you think is fact as it relates to shooting/hunting....

I believe a very select few beginners are capable of handling larger cartridges to start out with. Very few. But no human on earth can consistently shoot a 300 win mag more accurately than they can a 22 creed or any other smaller cartridge. If what you're saying were true, bench rest and F class shooters wouldn't be running boat anchor weight rifles in tiny little cartridges. That's a measurable fact

 

[huntinfool18]

I quit watching that channel after they opened showed and admitted to hitting 2 animals with one shot and not make an effort to recover the 2nd animal. They put the tag on the bigger animal and called it a day.

 

[southpa]

I believe a very select few beginners are capable of handling larger cartridges to start out with. Very few. But no human on earth can consistently shoot a 300 win mag more accurately than they can a 22 creed or any other smaller cartridge. If what you're saying were true, bench rest and F class shooters wouldn't be running boat anchor weight rifles in tiny little cartridges. That's a measurable fact

This is a hunting forum though. Centered around hunting. I know plenty of individuals large, small, old and young that can shoot their large caliber rifle in a hunting situation (not a benchrest boat anchor) as accurate for 3-5 shots as any flavor Creedmoor. It's just a fact. In those situations, lots of guys prefer to leave their 22s at home. Certainly nobody has to subscribe to that just as if they don't have to subscribe to the fact that maybe you cannot shoot your 300 as well as they can so that must mean they cannot either.

 

[MtPockets]

I quit watching that channel after they opened showed and admitted to hitting 2 animals with one shot and not make an effort to recover the 2nd animal. They put the tag on the bigger animal and called it a day.

Did Law Enforcement show them that that was not the correct way to handle said situation???

 

[MTbackwoods]

This is a hunting forum though. Centered around hunting. I know plenty of individuals large, small, old and young that can shoot their large caliber rifle in a hunting situation (not a benchrest boat anchor) as accurate for 3-5 shots as any flavor Creedmoor. It's just a fact. In those situations, lots of guys prefer to leave their 22s at home. Certainly nobody has to subscribe to that just as if they don't have to subscribe to the fact that maybe you cannot shoot your 300 as well as they can so that must mean they cannot either.

****. Ya got me. You sure do see it all. You're still wrong though

 

[huntinfool18]

Not sure. I'm sure there's more to the story but that is what was portrayed on their channel.

 

[southpa]

****. Ya got me. You sure do see it all. You're still wrong though

It's ok if you prefer little guns man. Not everyone does.
Now back to the regularly scheduled thread.

 

[FireFlyFishing]

Have you heard of the MK12 SPR? Or thought of the countless iterations of DMR's fielded by armed forces? What are they chambered in? And which would you prefer to take into battle? A rifle chambered in 5.56 or a 22 Creedmoor? On top of that, they use those specific chamberings when they know their engagement envelope is outside the range of lesser rifles. You don't take a win mag to a 300 meter and in fire fight. Everything has its place, including the 22 Creedmoor for hunting big game

Here ya go:

Mk 12 Special Purpose Rifle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I like the part of this wiki article that says:
In mid-2011, SOCOM began removing the Mk 12 SPR from their inventory and replacing it with the marksman version of the SCAR Mk 17, with the Mk 12 being completely replaced by 2017.[12]
Meaning they went back to a 7.62X51 chambering. So I guess they didn't pick another variation of the 556 or the 22 CM for that matter.

Do you care to comment on the 277 Fury? Not really a lighter cartridge as far as recoil goes and yet it's been adopted.

I believe a very select few beginners are capable of handling larger cartridges to start out with. Very few. But no human on earth can consistently shoot a 300 win mag more accurately than they can a 22 creed or any other smaller cartridge. If what you're saying were true, bench rest and F class shooters wouldn't be running boat anchor weight rifles in tiny little cartridges. That's a measurable fact

Negative. My freezers are full every year with game I hunt with magnums. Have I missed an animal before? Sure. It was from bad wind calls or poorly judged distance on quick shots. It had nothing to do with recoil. In fact, recoil isn't a consideration or registered when I take a shot on an animal.

I agree with @southpa. Hiding behind what's better for a child to shoot doesn't mean me and every other hunter must use small calibers when hunting big game…because it's in vogue right now. New cartridges have been developed and folks think we lived in the dark ages and weren't able to kill anything prior to the 6.5 CM.

Let me ask you this. I've seen a thread on this forum started by you trying to sell a product you invented. On said thread, you're shooting a 300 WM. I'm confused. Should I buy a smaller caliber rifle rather than purchase your muzzle device for a larger caliber rifle?

 

[xsn10s]

The military doesn't always choose a small arms weapon for its lethality (Geneva Convention). You logistically tie up more support personnel with a wounded soldier than a dead soldier. Also one of the reasons the US military first chose the 5.56 over the then issued 7.62 nato because a soldier could carry much more ammo. So in the terms of hunting compared to military use of small arms it's not a comparison.

 

[FEENIX]

I'm partially posting this in response to the wonderful discussion @Huntnful started about smaller calibers. This is not a bash on small caliber hunters or anyone else for that matter (including the man in the video). Flash to the 5:50 mark and indulge. Please tell me that I'm not the only one who is shaking my head in disbelief that guys like this are presenting info to people as if the round is actually the "Ultimate hunting round" IMO this is preposterous, with highly inaccurate and incomplete comparisons. This is what's wrong with hunting and especially long range hunting these days. Wondering if I'm not the only one here?

No, you are not alone, indicating 16 pages of discussion. As with anything else, we need to synthesize what is being presented. The "ultimate hunting round" is a marketing scheme/attention-getter, and it did its purpose. What one does with this information is another story. The internet is full of misinformation; nonetheless, the entertainment value is there for our entertainment. I personally do not sweat it.

 

[KsKevin]

Omg. Where to begin…loads of crap and twisting of info to position his message. Never heard of this guy but I'd trust him about as far as I can throw him.