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Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

THEIS

I think I'm headed in the right direction, the Warner 375 has been nothing but impressing so far.


Cheers
Osoh
 
OSOH,
What real world results are you getting and with what projectile and powder?

I think we are going to see a lot of 375/416B and 375/BMG wildcats....from the 375 warner to 375/Full BMG.

Sincerely,
THEIS
 
As far as mag actions, we are working with couple places
that are inventing actions in between for size, because the
2 mile rules are forcing guns lighter, but but yet we still want the longest, heaviest, stiff barrel ,and best stock. and got to keep it all under 40 lbs soon. .Ed
 
And about the bullets yes we don't need max weight and in 416 which there are now great variety of good bullets now being made, I think it is best all around size, And in weights of 450-500 gr will be easier shooting than 50 cal 750-800gr in 40 lb target setup...Ed
 
Hi,
The problem with 416 is that there is a shortage of proper twist rate barrels and not enough R&D on most proficient rifling profile.
Until that happens the 375 projectiles will be the go to projectile for "Big" cartridge wildcats.

Sincerely,
THEIS
 

Attachments

  • Hyper-Stabilized Rifle Bullets (re-formatted).pdf
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We got some with 1 to 10 twist now, won't be long for the 1 to 8 gets going, and Ceb is making their lazer types in 5-6 sizes, and maybe more, Lehigh and others has some 416,
it's not going to be years away. Ed
 
While "Hyper Stabilization" is definitely part of the equation (no I have not finished reading it all), at some point, just because of physics, the projectile will go trans-sonic and sub-sonic.

As I understand it, buffeting during the transition would induce bullet yaw. The long nose bullets we want for better ballistic coefficient (BC) seem to be more affected by this buffeting.

I don't think we can just "go faster with better BC and heavier for caliber" projectiles. We quickly reach diminishing returns.

Start pressures
Spin up losses
Obturation/deformation to rifling losses
Friction losses, barrel and air

My models so far show the CEB .375/425 Laser at 3550fps to be about the end of the program. Maybe there is more with some other projectile/velocity combination but it seems like that would soon run out of head room as well.

Where do we go from here?
Are we going to make a leap in advancement or continue to make small incremental advancements?

@RockyMtnMT and others have ideas of raising the sectional density (SD), I am going down this rabbit hole as well. We are using very very different approaches. I've had my physical materials for quite a while but life interferes with progress sometimes. Still, with each rise in SD there is corresponding impacts to start pressures, spin losses, etc... Though air surface friction losses will be lower and that is the lolly pop at the end of the ride.

Just an aside:

Electromagnet "Rail Guns" seem to provide some promise in the future however, they do not seem impart spin on the projectile. In order for the projectile to remain stable it must have stabilizing surfaces to counter buffeting induced yaw. These surfaces are a huge impact on the drag coefficients (CD). This in tern lowers what we call ballistic coefficient (BC). The videos I looked at have significant yaw near the muzzle.

and

Of course a rail gun is completely unobtanium for a hobby shooter...
 
quote-long nose bullets we want for better ballistic coefficient (BC) seem to be more affected by this buffeting..

That is why guys going with long nose lazers, to still
have long shape, but lighter nose which puts center of
pressure closer to center of gravity and flies better
over 2000 yds away, Ed
 
THEIS

Between my busy work schedules we will be load testing the rifle with the 361 and 400 gr. Flat Lines. Our intentions are to end up with a load to be used in 90 degree +/- environments without stressing out the brass. I know we could ramp it up and have speeds for bragging rights but you end up with sticky bolt lift and stressed primer pockets to boot. From what we seen fired out of my rifle so far and estimating a zone I would say 3475 to 3500 fps on the 361s and 3350 to 3400 fps on the 400s with ammo heated up in the 90 degree area - but only time will tell.

I just wanted to let you know where we are and without just throwing guesses and inflated numbers. I will post in time where we settled at for speeds on our accuracy load in those environments.

UPDATED INFO
With the the ammo based in a 90 degree environment and not stressing the brass/ primer pockets we have settled on the following loads for now and as the barrel burnishes in some yet the speeds will increase some and we may adjust the load. But after a few days of testing here is where we will be running as we speak
Flat Line 361 grain at 3491 fps and low single digit ES
Flat Line 400 grain at 3358 fps and again running a low single digit ES
End Of Update - Cheers

Powders H50BMG and RL50.

The rifle system complete ready to fire less ammo 38.1 Lbs

Cheers
Osoh
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From what we seen fired out of my rifle so far and estimating a zone I would say 3475 to 3500 fps on the 361s and 3350 to 3400 fps on the 400s
Please,

Sorry if I missed it:
What chambering?
What twist?
What barrel length?
 
375 Warner - 35" 8 twist

Total weight ready to fire less ammo including Atlas 5H folding bi-pod = 38.1
Total length = 62"

Osoh
 
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