Let's talk about 2 mile cartridges

[THEIS]

Hi,
I think we are going to see the pendulum start to swing back to "lighter is faster and speed is king" situation BUT unlike the past...we are not going to slow the twist rate up when doing so.
The PRS guys are already doing this by dropping from their 6.5s to the 6s to get more speed with the lighter projectiles even though the 6.5s have a better "BC".
I think we are at a point in the cycle that "pure" BC projectiles are not cutting it anymore..to make a leap advancement instead of minute step advancements we are going to have to change the ENTIRE system at once, not just a single component of the system.

Here is another great article from the Defense Technology Agency, Ballistics Division in Thun Switzerland.

Sincerely,
THEIS

 

[NEMTHunter]

This might sound stupid to some. But I think the .308 cal and .338 cal are the future of ELR shooting. Why? you can have light bullets and high BC in one package compared the the .358 and .375 and .416 and .50 cals.

I am working now a on a round that should be able to shoot the 198 WTS flat line @ 3600+ fps. If you look at the drop charts that beats a lot of the bigger calibers that are being currently used for Ko2M. For drop not saying wind drift. There are 30 cals out there now that can shoot the Berger 230 @ around 3500. Imagine if WTC came out with a 220 to 230 grain 30 caliber bullet? It would flat out rock!

Barrel life might be a problem though.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

https://www.facebook.com/warnertool...266286093368/1834458463240811/?type=3&theater

Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Barrel life might be a problem though.

As an advocate of "faster is better" for mono-metal, I am all over this part.

 

[NEMTHunter]

As an advocate of "faster is better" for mono-metal, I am all over this part.

I hear you for sure. I like speed! I also think with better powders barrel life can maybe be improved on plus some bullet coatings may help as well. AS with all things there can be growing pains. But as with most things there are always improvements to help. The more things are pushed the more likely to be improved on.

Besides in a full out custom ELR rifle the barrel is one of the cheaper components.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

New test barrel has arrived....for the 344gr projectiles from the revived version of the Mach V since barrels are consumable goods .

Sincerely,
THEIS

 

[Deleted member 71114]

All updated load info results are posted on # 401
38.1 lbs. ready to fire with bipod
62" in length
35" 8 twist

Cheers
Osoh

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Based on the picture Alan sent, I modeled the 375 WTC. Could I get the H2O capacity to check my model?

At the moment, my model is close to your actual.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

From Alan Warner in another thread...

3.320" Water to the top is 235g.

Sincerely,
THEIS

 

[ELR Researcher]

Recall way back when, OP post #1 - a 2 mile cartridge. Now, for apparent expedience (Ko2M thought to be the only game in town), folks are now hemming themselves into a 40# or lighter rifle. Baloney! URSA was envisioned and continues to be for shooters with "locally legal" cartridges. NO restriction on rifle/system weight, shooting position/support, or tech. But "we" (not me) now seem to feel that if it can't be proven at Ko2M it is not worth pursuing. Folks, as I have said, many, many times, Ko2M is Tactical ELR. 2 miles and way beyond do NOT need to be "tactical" unless "we" force ourselves into thinking that way. Me, I've got two .50/20 designs in build. One of those designs shot 800 grain bullets well over 4000 fps from a 45" barrel (former reamer owner). [Run those numbers.] While I certainly understand the "event" focus (Ko2M), please don't let that detract from the topic at hand, hitting reasonably small targets (URSA is 37" round and does not get any bigger with distance) at distances absolutely as far out as possible, period. Go further, go further, go further...

My current problem is that I'm stymied by my current smith. While I have found another "smith", that smith is much less qualified - a pressure barrel manufacturer. I need a very well equipped and qualified smith that can deal with 2.5" straight cylinder barrels, 45" long. I have 4 barrels that are "go forward" barrels and one that is to be cut in half and chambered to finish system development (yielding 2 barrels, one for each cartridges, each at 2.5 x 20-22"). If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd very much appreciate them e-mailing me ASAP at [email protected]. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 71114]

Oscar

Just for the record the rifle build was put together to shoot at a variety of the ELR events, I was pleased that it ended up at 38.1 lbs. mainly because at the age of 57 for some reason even my older 375 at 28 lbs was heavy some days. One of my best friends runs a 50 that slides in at 49.8 just making weight at last years at the KO2M.

I'm looking foward to Kansas and a few other events soon besides the KO2M.

Good luck, hope you hook up with a good trustworthy smith in time.

Osoh

 

[ELR Researcher]

...in time.

Osoh

Seems possibly some misunderstanding. I have exactly zero interest in shooting the Ko2M, i.e., in shooting Tactical ELR. My anxiousness is simply that, having dropped off the parts and tooling in September, and it being months past the time when I would be next in line, I'm nowhere. Will be calling my smith today.

 

[Deleted member 71114]

Maybe it came across wrong I was just stating that I had the rifle built to have some fun shooting at many of the opportunities and that the 38 lb worked out nice for carrying it around and making the limits as you stated that everyone is chattering about.

Some build for RnD and some build to just shoot and have fun, it's all good.

Cheers
JH

Osoh

 

[hubel458]

Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck when loaded over 44,000 psi....

Got guys asking and I'm doing it, to do my 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..

The inside of case still has close to same shape and volumne within 3 % as the ones we slimmed down.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done..Ed