Let’s talk reloading

[nealm66]

I'd be willing to bet you could play with the seating depth and powder and spread those groups out of those custom rifles just as easily as you could tighten them at distance

 

[Huntnful]

My 22 creed is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned or been around. It's 22 pounds and I think anyone could see the improvements with the a ladder and seating/tuner test. I wouldn't leave it at 1 moa and feel good about it after knowing what it's capable of

A platform like that is excellent for PROVING differences that can be made. What would a baseline group look like 1 grain under pressure, and .020 off the lands? And what are the significant measurable decreases in group size that you've made from a baseline group and what made the most significant improvement?

Here's my 9lb 22 creed with 80 ELDM's at 3300fps and zero load development. I don't even really know where the lands are in relation to the bullet in all honestly.

10 shots at 100 yards.

600 yard drop verification. 1/4 MOA for 5 shots.

 

[Huntnful]

I'd be willing to bet you could play with the seating depth and powder and spread those groups out of those custom rifles just as easily as you could tighten them at distance

I'm sure I could seat bullets .200 off the lands and half way into the case and see a difference, yes.

But I've shot multiple rifles at .010 jam, .010 off and .020 off and seen no provable repeatable significant change. Those are the only depths I would even test before I changed to a different bullet or powder if it didn't perform though.

 

[nealm66]

Well, I guess you would have the best luck it seems for a base line so it seems lol. I suspect it wouldn't be hard to shrink your group to 1/4 or better. Do you have a place to shoot in relatively calm at 200? I find that to be the easiest way to read your group's and not be fooled

 

[nealm66]

100 yard groups look great but I'd rather actually see the spread if the optics and the weather will allow.

 

[nealm66]

Oh, never mind, I see your already at 1/4. Very impressive for no load development!

 

[Huntnful]

Well, I guess you would have the best luck it seems for a base line so it seems lol. I suspect it wouldn't be hard to shrink your group to 1/4 or better. Do you have a place to shoot in relatively calm at 200? I find that to be the easiest way to read your group's and not be fooled

Yeah I have great place to shoot right by house that normally gives me clear and calm conditions for about 2 hours in the morning. I hardly spend any time at 100 yards. Only to shoot for zeros, or when I'm just forming brass. Normally I just go straight to 600 and see if the load holds around .5 MOA for 5 shots.

Do you honestly believe, that you have a 9lb rifle, of any cartridge size, that you can lay down with right now and shoot a 1/4 MOA 10 shot group? I would bet my life savings to anyone, any time, anywhere, that they cannot shoot a 1/4 MOA 10 shot group sight unseen with a 9lb rifle on demand. Not that it's never been done (though it probably hasn't), but that it is so unrepeatable, that the data would not be legit.

 

[Huntnful]

Oh, never mind, I see your already at 1/4. Very impressive for no load development!

Yeah it has shot 1/4 MOA groups at distance. But that isn't going to be every time. There's a capability of a rifle (1/4 MOA 5 shot group in this case) and then there is the actual repeatable ability of the rifle. Which is never anywhere near 1/4 MOA for a 9lb hunting weight rifle.

 

[nealm66]

Ya, I've never been able to get groups anywhere near that without load development. I stand corrected and humbled.

 

[Huntnful]

Ya, I've never been able to get groups anywhere near that without load development. I stand corrected and humbled.

Oh I definitely wasn't trying to correct you man. Just sharing my personal experience. I was going through my phone right now, and I bet I have over thirty 5-10 shot groups from .3-.6 MOA at various yardages. With zero tuning. Literally just find pressure, back off a grain, and seat close to the lands.

I have a .1 MOA 5 shot group just testing to see if a bullet liked a powder. First charge weight, first seating depth.

 

[nealm66]

My experience is usually the opposite. Buddy I'm teaching to reload bought a used bergara 300 win mag and it was about 3-4" with factory to start lol

 

[cajun]

Lol. Are you serious? That's terrible advice, but you do you.

If you cant shoot a 1/2 moa group at distance because you suck at reading wind then spending time and energy trying to reduce your group size at 100 is not going to help. Once your shooting,wind reading skills get to where your rifle is then we can talk.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Agree on some points, but my experience tells me they grow when you fire them too. But again if they don't grow past the book trim length… why would you trim… this would include even after you size it and they do not grow past the book trim

Because they don't all grow the same amount. One may not grow at all and another one may grow .004". You then have a difference in neck tension. SDs in low single digits requires concistency

 

[skipglo]

Maybe this step was implied, but I wouldn't feel comfortable picking a load in the top 75% of the book. I start at the bottom of the range, one shot then another 1/2 to full grain up, and keep going to find pressure.

You will also likely get more responses in the reloading forum.

I only start in the top 80 % to save on components and testing....one needs to understand that EVERY reloading manual has substantial safety margin built into it for liability coverage! So 80 % is closer to 60%. Just one more opinion and I haven't had a "near miss" in 50 years.