Let’s talk reloading

[nealm66]

How will you ever know? Maybe it's not that you're not capable but something else is the problem?

 

[nealm66]

And why does it take so much time and money?

 

[stiff neck]

I think the other take away is lets say you have a 3/4 moa load. Spending time and money to get that to 1/2 moa is a waste of time if you can't shoot the difference. In other words if you are not capable of shooting 4" groups at 800 then having a load that will do that is a waste of time.

Lol. Are you serious? That's terrible advice, but you do you.

 

[Justice1327]

I also trim, inside/outside ream, clean primer pockets and anneal every loading. I trim to trim length, but it's not because they grow to maximum case length after one firing. As a matter of fact, they don't grow at all when you fire them. They grow when you resize them. It's about making sure they are all the same length, to ensure consistent neck tension from round to round. They don't all stretch the same amount.
I am a firm believer that uniform neck tension is one of the most important aspects of accuracy.

Agree on some points, but my experience tells me they grow when you fire them too. But again if they don't grow past the book trim length… why would you trim… this would include even after you size it and they do not grow past the book trim

 

[Justice1327]

I have no issue using virgin brass either, but I still go trough my trim, and chamfer process. Good brass normally does not need much trimming to be uniform. My trimming habit is just the engineer in me. Things have to be consistent otherwise my eyes start to twitch....

Yes, I always measure my brass to ensure it's not too long. But I do chamfer and De- Burr.
I just got rid of a 20/22-250 and a 22-250 AI. I swear those cases grew after every firing but my 20 BRA and 22 Creedmoor show hardly any growth after five or six firings.

 

[marksman1941]

I think the other take away is lets say you have a 3/4 moa load. Spending time and money to get that to 1/2 moa is a waste of time if you can't shoot the difference. In other words if you are not capable of shooting 4" groups at 800 then having a load that will do that is a waste of time.

I get your point but I think it's a balance. If you're going to shoot your barrel out finding that perfect recipe, it's not worth finding. But a more accurate load will always make you more accurate, even if you're a poor shooter. It just removes more erratic deviation from the mechanical portion of shooting and puts the onus fully on you.

 

[Rick Richard]

For me shooting is fun, BUT chasing that BETTER group…..is FUNNER. And to do that you might have to sacrifice those barrels. Besides, hunting season is not all year long. So, shoot shoot shoot.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I guess I just don't see doing a powder/seating ladder to be that wasteful or difficult. I've been teaching a friend who at first was in the good enough state of mind but he now realizes it's not that difficult or wasteful to tune. If you're shooting something that doesn't benefit from tuning to a degree that improves your performance than so be it. If at some point you desire more and a powder/seating ladder doesn't seem to be improving things then maybe there's a learning opportunity or maybe you just assume that it's not possible. Simple as that

Do you have examples of powder ladder tests that are proven beyond a reasonable doubt to make a significant difference with statistically relevant sample sizes?

My primary contention isn't that a cutting 1/4 MOA isn't worth it but more that most people's typical load dev methods lie to them and dont actually provide a measurable benefit when evaluated over larger sample sizes. And the lowest bucket for me is my field shooting abilities, not improving on a load that will put 10 rounds into 1 MOA or less.

 

[Mark37082]

Reloading and shooting/hunting are hobbies for me. I completely agree that chasing perfection has to start with the rifle. I don't shoot bench rest or F class, so squeezing .1 MOA improvements is not what I look for. I've done seating depth testing, but have found .02 works well for most of my loads. I only trim when needed (it's not my favorite thing to do).
I don't understand why some would spew venom at the Hornady guys for their podcast. Their target audience is casual reloaders or beginners. There always seems to be few that want to tear down anyone trying to simplify the basics of reloading.

 

[nealm66]

Man, 10 shots inside 1 moa is pretty impressive for handloads without any kind of powder ladder or seating depth testing but I have been really impressed with some custom rifles shooting factory ammunition so who knows. I think it gets a little more challenging as we wander away from the less popular and more recoil rifles for sure. I'll be at a couple different 600 yard matches this month and hopefully my testing pays off. I still don't see what all the fuss is. Just do a 20 round pressure ladder. Load up 10 , 4 shot groups at 3 thousandths jump in a few from 20k away from jam and the rest out. Shoot the short ones first, only shoot 2 if they're not touching or close to it unless you pulled one. Once you find .5 or better, push the rest in to match. I do it all the time and usually at 200 yards or meters so I can see the spread a little better. Here's a 5 shot 200 meter group from a 300 prc with 220 bergers I shot 2 weekends ago using a tuner instead of seating but same difference except I don't have to pull any bullets

 

[nealm66]

So this group is .184 moa and will be one of the rifles I'll be shooting in the 600 matches

 

[Justice1327]

No load work up. Just forming brass I'm doing bullet seating depth to see if it likes these bullets.
95 shots. New 22 CM

 

[Huntnful]

No load work up. Just forming brass I'm doing bullet seating depth to see if it likes these bullets.
95 shots. New 22 CM

Love the examples!

So personally, I've never had a custom rifle NOT shoot 10 rounds under 1 MOA with no load development. @Barehandlineman11 has built me 6 rifles I think now. And they've all shot 10 shot .6 MOA groups at 100 yards with ZERO load development. And I mean zero. Load and shoot. Some with multiple bullets.

I do think you could SLIGHTY better the accuracy in some instances with some testing. But it would take a lot of shooting to prove a significant improvement. And then that improvement isn't going to ever kill me any more animals than a 10 shot .6 MOA group is going to kill for me.

 

[nealm66]

My 22 creed is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned or been around. It's 22 pounds and I think anyone could see the improvements with the a ladder and seating/tuner test. I wouldn't leave it at 1 moa and feel good about it after knowing what it's capable of