Interesting article on bear spray vs. bear handgun defense

[dogz]

Phil is the MJ of the bear world, make no doubt about.

I haven't watched the interview for a while but it seems to me he got a shot or two into the bruin but the one that put a stop to it was to the noggin. Without that final shot to the head I'd bet that more than likely one or the other of the fellas would of had tracks and fang marks on them (or worse)............

I carry my G43X and my G20, always Buffalo Bore Hard cast and I practice a lot with them coming out of a chest holster.

For sure if under attack I'd hit them where I could, but given my druthers if CNS were an option I'd go CNS in order to put a stop to the fray.

I've had two charges by black bears, both while guiding. Both bruins were wearing a bullet from a client and were quite ****ed at the world! Both altercations ended with one well placed round under the chin. One at 9' and coming hard and fast, the other @ 15' and closing the distance quickly. I used a 25/06 on the first one and my 22/250 on the other.

Bottom line, we all have choices to make, and I hope to heck that none of us ever have to get into a scrap with a bear, in particular a G bear. Where I live in SWMT there isn't much for places where one can't have the chance to run into one. There's been one spotted up in the Bears Paw and last fall there was one running amuck up in the Breaks where my wife and I were hunting for her sheep.

I love the bruins, but I prefer to watch them on my terms

 

[fta0303]

But you can shoot bullets upwind.

and if the spray misses the eyes, nose, and mouth, it will do nothing. it has no permanent effect. black bears, when they attack humans, are in predatory mode, a whole different beast than that clownish fellow who runs away from you. about 95% of bear attacks on humans are turned, if the human deploys a gun.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Phil is the MJ of the bear world, make no doubt about.

I haven't watched the interview for a while but it seems to me he got a shot or two into the bruin but the one that put a stop to it was to the noggin. Without that final shot to the head I'd bet that more than likely one or the other of the fellas would of had tracks and fang marks on them (or worse)............

I carry my G43X and my G20, always Buffalo Bore Hard cast and I practice a lot with them coming out of a chest holster.

For sure if under attack I'd hit them where I could, but given my druthers if CNS were an option I'd go CNS in order to put a stop to the fray.

I've had two charges by black bears, both while guiding. Both bruins were wearing a bullet from a client and were quite ****ed at the world! Both altercations ended with one well placed round under the chin. One at 9' and coming hard and fast, the other @ 15' and closing the distance quickly. I used a 25/06 on the first one and my 22/250 on the other.

Bottom line, we all have choices to make, and I hope to heck that none of us ever have to get into a scrap with a bear, in particular a G bear. Where I live in SWMT there isn't much for places where one can't have the chance to run into one. There's been one spotted up in the Bears Paw and last fall there was one running amuck up in the Breaks where my wife and I were hunting for her sheep.

I love the bruins, but I prefer to watch them on my terms

How did the sheep hunt turn out?

 

[HARPERC]

I watched that video.

Ron Spomer never asked Phil how many full-blown bear charges he'd stopped with a 9mm pea-shooter.

The bear Phil killed with the 9mm never left a scratch on either of his clients, even though it was right next to them. I didn't consider it a fight-to-the-death charge. Dead serious bears don't charge up to folk, look at them, and trot off. They immediately employ fangs and claws to disable or kill the perceived threat, upon first contact.

I didn't watch the video. So just my recollection/interpretation of events as I read them when it happened.

They stepped on a sleeping bear, and it couldn't quite find the door to leave. It wasn't the biggest bear, and may have thought it was a bigger bear claiming the spot.

A friend got ran over by a small black bear. It was bayed up with hounds, and he put a 300 grain .44 magnum in it. It ran his direction with dogs in tow. Escape route was blocked and over he went. Nothing but a good story to tell after as bear and dogs continued a bit as bear expired.

 

[dogz]

How did the sheep hunt turn out?

Tons of work, but fun work. My wife took a very nice ram. Between scouting and hunting we put in 21 days. Plenty of miles and lots of elevation changes. All in all a fantastic time.

Thanks for asking

 

[Pdvdh]

I didn't watch the video. So just my recollection/interpretation of events as I read them when it happened.

They stepped on a sleeping bear, and it couldn't quite find the door to leave. It wasn't the biggest bear, and may have thought it was a bigger bear claiming the spot.

As I recall from watching the video, the bear never charged Phil. It ran up to his two clients at least twice, who had both dropped to the ground and huddled together. Bear stood next to the couple huddled on the ground, but never made physical contact. This gave Phil time to place three slugs into the broadside ribs of the bear, just behind the front shoulders.

After getting hit three times, the bear moved away and died, due to the three double-lung hits.

No CNS hits. Phil aimed for the lungs with each shot, since he had the luxery of time for the bear to expire, on his side. Again..., Phil said he didn't know where his two clients were when he was shooting the bear because they had dropped to the ground, and were out of sight. He did believe the bear had charged up close to his clients, which is why he opened fire.

It wasn't a ferocious bloodcurdling charge. Otherwise one or both of his clients would have been mauled. The bear had plenty of opportunity and time to tear scalp off of skulls before it expired.

 

[flyguy1]

A buffalo bore 9mm +P+ hardcast will kill a bear, if you're cool enough to hit him,that's what we carry in Montana in our handguns,mine a Glock 19,hers Sig p365,between the dog,the handguns,and the Maverick 88, we'll never become victims,i consider myself cool under fire,having been shot at twice in 15 years,it's a mindset you either have it or don't , doesn't mean a thing just the way you were made. We're heading there in June one week staying in the polebridge cabin ,Glacier in the back 40.Pays to know rich doctors.

We'll be there at the same time, although not in Polebridge but still near the West entrance. S&W 686, Model 19, Sig P320, all with Buffalo Bore.

 

[ohlongarmisle]

We'll be there at the same time, although not in Polebridge but still near the West entrance. S&W 686, Model 19, Sig P320, all with Buffalo Bore.

Excellent, but i'll have my ace in the hole the danger now is grizzly sows with cubs,be careful!

 

[Alibiiv]

Well... after the 106 replies, I ran across this thread from the same source. Again another perspective on handguns for protection against bears:

Handgun Defense Against Bears, Caliber NOT Critical as Thought

When handguns are fired in defense against bears, caliber is not as important as many people think. Having a gun is far more important.

www.ammoland.com

I am not certain that I back this one up. I think that what the article is saying is that a 9mm is better than nothing? We carry Glock 20s with 200 grain Lehigh Defense hard cast bullets, with Streamlight "TLR-8 AG" light/laser systems on them. We have never had to use them, but... one never knows and they are always by our side.

 

[memtb]

I wonder how many bear encounter survivors that used only bear spray still only carry bear spray?

A friend of mine had a bear encounter when hunting in the Wind Rivers, he used the spray while putting a tree between him and the bear. By mere luck he actually didn't receive injuries……but, when he got back home he bought a brand new, recently introduced 4" S&W 500. He felt much more comfortable with "spraying" 400 + grain bullets from the S&W.

Rumor has it that they are minimally effected by wind inside of 10 yards…..any wind! Juss Say'n! memtb

 

[memtb]

And or for the person who is self aware enough to understand that they're not handgun capable. Let alone cool enough to get it done with a handgun.

I get all the jokes and such regarding bear spray, but real world I'd bet that for all but those that practice a ton load with a handgun (especially from draw to fire and be able to hit CNS in under 1 second to 1.5 seconds on a fast moving and advancing target). I'd also bet that not more than 5 guys in 100 are capable of doing such a thing.........

But, I could be wrong! Have been so many times before in my life.

Bear threads are a hoot, it brings out all kinds of thoughts from all levels of experience and as always a lot of comments from those who just don't spend much if any time in G bear territory.

Flame away boys and girls...

I agree with almost all of your post. However, the bear can't hurt you unless it makes physical contact with you. I'm not a great handgunner by any shape of the imagination. But, I think that under 5 or 6 feet distance (and closing) I can pretty much put the bullet where it should go……assuming that they're attacking with the front end in the lead! Jus Say'n! memtb

 

[memtb]

I don't believe anything fired from the hand qualifies as a "bear stopper", and not much fired from the shoulder-absent CNS hits.

In term of handgun choice pick what suits your circumstances.

I think that my 400 grain cast bullets @ 1500 mv from my handgun would be a better choice than the cartridges/bullets that many on this forum prefer to hunt with. And, it can be and has been fired with one hand. I'd venture to say, that in a legitimate bear attack ….I can get off just as many rounds as the aforementioned "turn bolt" shooter……"ONE"! memtb

 

[memtb]

Upon reflection, this post is in poor taste (accurate perhaps, but in poor taste nonetheless). My apologies to the board.

The bear had no issues with the bad taste……and neither do I! memtb

 

[memtb]

Last time I was exploring and fishing in the Wind River Range we ran upon a Cub Scout group. Their camping spot at Jim Creek had around the edge wire and a battery powered electric fence. I thought this was a great idea. The day before we spied 2 grizzly eating rose hips about half a mile from them next to a blow down area up the hill and across the creek from them.

When I was sheep hunting in Sunlight Basin, we had a sow Grizzly in our camp area ( we and several other hunters were in hard sided campers). These bears would scrounge around our campsite every night, then head on over to a nearby ranch, break into the feed room in the barnnand help themselves.

The barn was surrounded by an electric fence……never slowed the bears. The G&F shot them with rubber bullets, and some other measures……the bears returned every night. The bears were trapped by the G&F before my hunt was over!

I'd never rely on an electric fence with a determined bear! But, that's just me! memtb