Interesting article on bear spray vs. bear handgun defense

[Shootin4fun]

All I can say, is I REQUIRE anyone hunting my farms to have a side arm and be able to use it. It was all fun and games until it came down to an aggressive bear that would not back down last year. I had already drawn my sidearm, but when he continued and got within my 10 foot safe perimeter, I encouraged him to leave.

Are they bow hunters? Or do you require a side arm for backup in the event their rifle fails?

 

[Shootin4fun]

So this , was and has been a long read . I've been into it for a while . I have not been to Wyoming ( other than cutting the southeast corner to head into Colorado ) since summer of 2006 . Holy **** what an idiot I was . Stayed out side of Dubois . With my 2 dogs and wife and kid in tow I traipsed around like a jackass . Riding my enduro on the trails , fishing in the mountain lakes and driving in the truck . Had my Ruger no 1 220 swift in case I could get a shot at a coyote . Having been in the area for several years before snowmobiling , bears were never an issue . I asked a guy when the snakes came out and decided first week of June would be best . Never thought about bears coming out of hibernation . On our trip out we drove through Yellowstone , I got a lot of pictures of grizzlies and some a little closer than I should have . Big difference between 35 and 53 . I now go nowhere without my sig P220 .45 and I can shoot it very well . By the way what is CNS ?

Central nervous system- brain or spine.

 

[jamie eaton]

Thanks I kept going back and looking but could not find a reference . Plus haven't finished that pot of coffee yet .

 

[Shootin4fun]

Bear Spray is a mix of "Preppers" mainly CAPSAICIN

WOW
Bear spray is a specific aerosol deterrent designed to discourage aggressive or charging bears. Its active ingredients are highly irritant capsaicin and related capsaicinoids derived from red chili peppers. When faced with an aggressive bear, a user points the canister and sprays the contents for 2–3 seconds. The maximum effective range varies by manufacturer but is generally effective when sprayed at a charging bear from a distance of 1.5 to 3 meters

I actually need to pull up the effect of "Capsaicinoids" on HUMANS-MAMALS.
It really does not have some effect for someone on drugs or high "Adrenaline" release in the brain. This happens on all mammals. The "Fear-Flight" takes effect. SO in a situation you either RUN or FIGHT and ADRENALINE kicks in. Basically, when that natural drug released in the brain nothing will stop the animal.
CN & CS Gas does have a dramatic effect on humans and animals, but you can't get it anymore.
I had the "CN" - "MACE", and "CS" "Tear Gas" Spray in Cans that were about 11" X 1.5" back in the 70s before they Banned It and changed to a CAPSAICIN type spray. It was said that a "Drug Induced" person would not be effected by "CN" MACE "CS" but Peppers burning the eyes and respiratory would stop the person. IT DOES NOT effect if a person or animal had ADRENALINE kicking in.

Pepper "CAPSAICIN "Spray is used by the Government is said to be much more effect than CN (MACE) CS (Tear Gas) Gases.
It all comes down to lability. Try to get some CN or CS in Aerosol or any other forms these days.

If I was going into an are with "Bears" actually Black Bears are mean. I know I hiked through the Appalachian for many Years training to stay in shape for mountain climbing. I carried my dad's Remington Rand 1911 .45 all the time. Sometimes slept in a small shelter with Chain-link Fence to lock us in at night on Mt LeConte.
Anyone that thinks that "Bear Spray" Pepper Spray will stop a charging or Peed off Bear will have that area left with Bear Scat to include the Humans and the can of Bear Spray.

Now not to say that you have to shoot all Bears that you see. A lot of Bears will RUN the other WAY!!!!
You can not go into bear country unless you know what you are doing and the bear's environment. I have had encounters with some small and BIG Black Bears here in North GA.
I would never use a Spray Can. The time it takes you to "SPRAY" a Bear it is already on you.
When Hunting I always carry my S&W Model 29 6". It is not a thing if I am in bear country or not. I know that I have a back up from my rifle whether it is a .22 or .325wsm.
Just be Safe when hunting and don't make mistakes just because you read something in a magazine.

Well, you hiked an area with black bears for years, and "they are mean". So did one ever attempt to attack you? I live in black bear country and have had probably over 100 of encounters with them. I even had to wire the exterior of my house with a high voltage system to keep them from breaking in. The not infrequent damage they cause gets expensive fast. (In fact i now install systems on homes in the area as a business.) so i have plent of experience with black bears while hiking, hunting, working around my property, or just cooking dinner. Last encounter was 2 days ago while hiking. I kept my distance (about 70 yards, walked uphill around past them making sure there were no others in my path), and 1 watched me while the other ate…then they went the other direction.

Bears are not "mean". They are just bears. In the animal kingdom, that attribute is mostly exhibited by humans.

Black bears usually want nothing to do with humans. They generally do not prey on humans for food. I scare them away by making myself appear as large as possible and screaming at them. It can be scary if they suddenly appear. You have to stand your ground. Personally i have never had to spray one- i don't carry spray anyway. I've never had to shoot one either. I do carry when i go deeper into the wilderness alone. That is more for mountain lions than bears, but you never know. I had a mountain lion spying me at night at my camping spot when hunting last year. I jumped and screamed faster than i could draw my pistol and it bolted off like lightning. Glad that worked on the lion as well as it does on bears.

The main thing in staying safe with black bears is to not get between a mother and her cubs.

Brown bears are of course a completely different story. I have no experience with them and don't particularly want to.

 

[Shootin4fun]

I've seen a large black bear (~500lbs) in pursuit of human discarded food run just out of range of a bear spray stream and come back when the spraying stopped. Finally, the sheriff resorted to rubber 12 gauge slugs which caused him to leave. No wonder he got so big!

I don't leave my house without turning on my "bear bouncer" high voltage system. The same as used on ranch fencing, etc.

BTW, there is a Collection of hilarious videos on YouTube showing the experimentation and use of high voltage systems to keep bears out. They even work on polar bears!! in one video a guy even wires up a side of deer and hangs it from a tree. Spoiler alert, bears are smart!

 

[Shootin4fun]

I wonder how many bear encounter survivors that used only bear spray still only carry bear spray?

Probably most. Because they are not gun people. More likely, they just stop going places where there might be bears.

 

[justinp61]

Here is a better reason to carry in National Parks.
2022 article mentions 73 murders in National Parks in the three years prior to the article.
There's more than wild critters in our parks.
Feral humans are the most dangerous critters at large…anywhere.

Why most murders in national parks go unsolved

A new book, “Trailed: One Woman’s Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders,” explores a small, but disturbing number of killings that have gone unsolved in our national parks.

nypost.com

This is the biggest reason I carry in the Smoky's. A person could easily disappear and never be found.

 

[comfisherman]

Certainly feel less threatened by the browns of the peninsula, the Grizzly of the interior, the black bears of South central than the tweaker of anchorage....

 

[Pro2A]

This is an article that I took out of an Ammoland Shooting Sports emailing. It is interesting and provides a different perspective about bear deterrents from attacks.

Good read, I thought that the bear hunters would appreciate the information or the misinformation that is out there: www.ammoland.com/2024/04/bias-in-studies-of-the-efficacy-of-firearms-in-bear-attacks

In addition to Ammoland content, check content on bear attacks, gun, spray defense systems by Tom Smith (1000+ attacks cataloged/analyzed), Todd Orr (grizzly attacked twice), "At Home In Wild Spaces" series on YouTube (forget person's name). Guns and bear spray are complementary, not mutually exclusive. Spray is 98+% effective in avoiding injury versus guns around 60%. Shooting bear with gun means the bear must be killed, wounded bears are critically dangerous. Spraying a bear does not increase future aggressiveness, may imprint bear that humans are not to be engaged, may avoid a dead bear. Just some additional thoughts for your pondering.

 

[Noobie]

Here is a better reason to carry in National Parks.
2022 article mentions 73 murders in National Parks in the three years prior to the article.
There's more than wild critters in our parks.
Feral humans are the most dangerous critters at large…anywhere.

Why most murders in national parks go unsolved

A new book, “Trailed: One Woman’s Quest to Solve the Shenandoah Murders,” explores a small, but disturbing number of killings that have gone unsolved in our national parks.

nypost.com

Clickbait.
Per the article, 300 million visitors per year at 423 parks. 330 deaths per year equals one per million. Over half are accidental, leaving 150 per year of which 95% are suicide. "A total of 73 people were murdered in the past 5 years." So 73 out of 1.5 billion visitors in 5 years. And mostly female victims. Mercy me!
Compare that to Philly - 450 homicides in one year in a population of 1.5 million, not 1.5 billion. But you never hear about it. Let one guy gun down a few co-eds at a preppy college though, and it makes international headlines for months.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Pistol, Bear Spray or Both? | Clay Newcomb Learns Bear Defense | Presented by Taurus

Most folks think that bear defense revolves around one age-old debate: pistol versus bear spray. MeatEater's Clay Newcomb, a long time bear man, has always wanted to go deeper and figure out what he can do better in the bear woods.

www.themeateater.com

 

[RockyRandy]

I thought I would share this link from Meateaters. Good read from real life experience.

Charging Grizzly Killed by Handgun-Wielding Shed Hunter

A shed hunter shot and killed a sow grizzly bear last month as the 300-pound bruin charged him in western Montana. Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks (FWP) reports that the incident occurred on private land northwest of the town of Wolf Creek. The shed hunter, who has not been identified, was...

click.mail.themeateater.com

 

[Rum Man]

On a happier note, I heard a good report a while ago about a determined MAN who was not stopped by it either. Older middle age construction worker from around here was in the city and there was a road rage incident involving some younger gang thug type who motioned for this man to come to his window to talk. He shouldn't have gone over there at all but when he did the punk blasted him in the face with bear spray. It did not go the way he thought it would . Another reason to wear one's seat belt…the punk wasn't wearing his and this man, in a great deal of pain, nonetheless PULLED HIM THROUGH THE DRIVERSIDE WINDOW AND BEAT THE EVERLOVING out of him, bad enough to put him in the hospital. And, in a stunning turn of events, even here in Canada where you aren't supposed to defend yourself, this was ruled totally justified self defense and the guy faced no charges. I love a happy ending.

But the point was, if a determined and angry enough human man can fight through bear spray and physically destroy the one who sprayed it, what do you imagine an 800 pound killing machine of an animal could do?

I'm my mind the Bear is thinking...I'm going to have Friends for Dinner!

My Wife carried a can of dinner spray with her on our Mt. Spring Bear hunting trips .
I just carried the 338 Rum and my favorite 10 mm Glock with 15 rounds of 220 gr nasty herbs and spices!

Rum Man

 

[hpmag308]

Never hike in bear country without two things,an aggressive canine who's not afraid to initiate an attack , enough where you can bring a lethal firearm in to play.Shown below a Czech import 100% trained including attack, can smell a bear well over a mile away, and we carry a Mossberg Maverick top folding 12 gauge loaded with Brenneke Magnum Crush slugs, with a couple 3 inch Federal 000 buck 10 pellets.The magnum crush hits at 3800 ft/lbs and is 666 grains never had any concern in Polebridge yet , despite 10 bear encounters in 12 years.

This was my buddy, past a few years ago. His grandmother and grandfather were from Czech. Easy dog to train and he could track also.always wanted to be doing something bite sleeve he loved it