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Black Bear self defense handgun/rifle
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I have been around black bears all my life, and I have treed probably 2 dozen, just me, no dog. I usually run small bears of the road, hoping they will get to be big bears. Treed many doing this, also just tried to pass bears in timber and had them tree. Most blacks are timid, or it is just the natural thing to tree. A friend that I worked with was out bow hunting and they suprizd a bear, it treed , they shot it . at the time it was state record and only BOONE bear in MT, ABOUT 15 YRS.AGO
A pump will come back on target after recoil when you cycle the action. A 7600 or 7400 carbine in 30.06 is a great thing. I have been hunting with this (760) for along time. Dad had the 742 When you cycle the action you pull it right down from the muzzle rise. This will get you back to the target faster with an AIMED second shot. The auto will cause more times than not an over the top second shot with the short 18.5 inch barrels.
A handgun will always be on your person. You won't lean it up against a tree to perform a bodily function. That is the single biggest factor imho. I ran bears with hounds for some years. I used either a 30-30,35 rem or the 760 in 30.06. At close range the 30.06 is best. For your application though a 12ga is better. If you choose a 12 guage I would load a 3 or 31/2" turkey load of 4's in the chamber. then 1 buckshot with slugs for the rest of the magazine. The turkey load will have the stopping power being 2-21/2 oz of lead at charging distance. This will give you the time for a second shot. I have been run over by a bear and it taught me something. That is why I now use the 12ga loaded as such when we run bears.
A handgun will always be on your person. You won't lean it up against a tree to perform a bodily function. That is the single biggest factor imho. I ran bears with hounds for some years. I used either a 30-30,35 rem or the 760 in 30.06. At close range the 30.06 is best. For your application though a 12ga is better. If you choose a 12 guage I would load a 3 or 31/2" turkey load of 4's in the chamber. then 1 buckshot with slugs for the rest of the magazine. The turkey load will have the stopping power being 2-21/2 oz of lead at charging distance. This will give you the time for a second shot. I have been run over by a bear and it taught me something. That is why I now use the 12ga loaded as such when we run bears.
Moki
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2009
- Messages
- 101
This is a friend of mine for years he carried a Rem 870 14" or 18.5" barreled 12 gauge that is until he first saw a Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 that he had to have he loads from 300gr to 550gr bullets for it.
Here he is shooting it @ a 25 yard target he does a lot of solo prospecting in remote wilderness areas of northern British Columbia, Canada and he always had his Chesapeake Bay Retriever with him until this fall when he had to put her down but he has a new chessy pup now that will be with him when he heads out in the spring.
YouTube - Speed Shooting Marlin 1895GS 45-70 1
YouTube - Speed shooting Marlin 1895GS 45-70 2
His handgun of choice after spending years going thru trial and error looking for the ultimate handgun for bear defense is a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull shortened to 4.25" he installed a Crimson Trace laser grip.
When he is in black bear country he loads the handgun with 45 Colt 300gr XTP's or if he is loaded with 454 Casull loads he loads 240gr or 300gr XTP-Mag's.
He tells me when he is in grizzly country he doesn't mess around and loads his 454 Casull Beartooth 405gr WLNGC's @ 1330fps and he feels a handgun that is bigger is just to bothersome/cumbersome to pack all day and stated that the SRH/454 Casull is the best all round wilderness defense handgun he has ever found.
Here is a video of him playing around with 45 Colt 300gr loads and then 454 Casull 300gr loads.
YouTube - SRH 45Colt/454 Casull
He tells me that he has moved on in his choice of rifles after going in after an appr 1000lbs grizzly with the 45-70 he has decided that he wanted more of a all round cartridge/rifle combo so he shortened a Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM to 21" and did a few other mod's he is getting with RL17 powder 3030fps with 260gr Accubonds and 2740fps with 300gr Gamekings/Partitions/A-Frames.
These are not top loads but he tells me any more recoil would slow down his second shot to much if he needed one.
The rifle is set up with Leupold QRW rings and bases a VX3 4.5-14X40mm B&C scope and when he pops the scope off he mounts an XS Sights Tall Weaver backup ghost ring sight for his rear sight the front sight is a NECG Masterpiece banded front ramp and a partridge front post.
He has the 300gr loads sighted in dead on @ 50 yards when the ghost ring sight is on and the rifle is so accurate and the velocities where higher than he thought he would get from such a short barrel that he mounted a 4.5-14X40 B&C scope instead of the VX3 2.5-8X36mm B&C scope he originally bought for this rifle
Here is a picture of the rifle...
This is a picture of the SRH.
The Marlin he is shooting in the video's and a Puma M92 in 454 Casull
His Rem 870 12 gauge shotguns the scope is a Burris 1X EER shotgun reticle
He also carried 45 Colt Ruger Bisley Vaquero's for a while before he moved up to the SRH's.
Here he is shooting it @ a 25 yard target he does a lot of solo prospecting in remote wilderness areas of northern British Columbia, Canada and he always had his Chesapeake Bay Retriever with him until this fall when he had to put her down but he has a new chessy pup now that will be with him when he heads out in the spring.
YouTube - Speed Shooting Marlin 1895GS 45-70 1
YouTube - Speed shooting Marlin 1895GS 45-70 2
His handgun of choice after spending years going thru trial and error looking for the ultimate handgun for bear defense is a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 Casull shortened to 4.25" he installed a Crimson Trace laser grip.
When he is in black bear country he loads the handgun with 45 Colt 300gr XTP's or if he is loaded with 454 Casull loads he loads 240gr or 300gr XTP-Mag's.
He tells me when he is in grizzly country he doesn't mess around and loads his 454 Casull Beartooth 405gr WLNGC's @ 1330fps and he feels a handgun that is bigger is just to bothersome/cumbersome to pack all day and stated that the SRH/454 Casull is the best all round wilderness defense handgun he has ever found.
Here is a video of him playing around with 45 Colt 300gr loads and then 454 Casull 300gr loads.
YouTube - SRH 45Colt/454 Casull
He tells me that he has moved on in his choice of rifles after going in after an appr 1000lbs grizzly with the 45-70 he has decided that he wanted more of a all round cartridge/rifle combo so he shortened a Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM to 21" and did a few other mod's he is getting with RL17 powder 3030fps with 260gr Accubonds and 2740fps with 300gr Gamekings/Partitions/A-Frames.
These are not top loads but he tells me any more recoil would slow down his second shot to much if he needed one.
The rifle is set up with Leupold QRW rings and bases a VX3 4.5-14X40mm B&C scope and when he pops the scope off he mounts an XS Sights Tall Weaver backup ghost ring sight for his rear sight the front sight is a NECG Masterpiece banded front ramp and a partridge front post.
He has the 300gr loads sighted in dead on @ 50 yards when the ghost ring sight is on and the rifle is so accurate and the velocities where higher than he thought he would get from such a short barrel that he mounted a 4.5-14X40 B&C scope instead of the VX3 2.5-8X36mm B&C scope he originally bought for this rifle
Here is a picture of the rifle...
This is a picture of the SRH.
The Marlin he is shooting in the video's and a Puma M92 in 454 Casull
His Rem 870 12 gauge shotguns the scope is a Burris 1X EER shotgun reticle
He also carried 45 Colt Ruger Bisley Vaquero's for a while before he moved up to the SRH's.
jasonprox700
Well-Known Member
This one is not the norm, but...
.458 SOCOM in a AR15. The .458 about duplicates the .45-70 with 300 grain bullets. All of this in a compact, easy to handle, auto-loader. I think one of these with a collapsible stock and 16" barrel would be ideal for the close in stuff. You can put lead down range as fast as you can pull the trigger, couple that with a high capacity mag, and a bear would not stand a chance.
.458 SOCOM in a AR15. The .458 about duplicates the .45-70 with 300 grain bullets. All of this in a compact, easy to handle, auto-loader. I think one of these with a collapsible stock and 16" barrel would be ideal for the close in stuff. You can put lead down range as fast as you can pull the trigger, couple that with a high capacity mag, and a bear would not stand a chance.
winmag
Well-Known Member
The 30-30 and the 40 will suffice. i wouldnt feel under-gunned against a black bear with that combo. as long as you are practiced with them. Griz is a whole different ball of wax.
" jasonprox" has helped me out on AR questions. and if your looking for an excuse to go get a new toy for carying in the bushes, id look hard at what he has to say. JMO
As far as hand guns go,44 mag in a Ruger blackhawk is my personal favorite. you can load the snott out of a blackhawk. its quite a bit bigger than your 40, and a long time ago i dated a gal about 5'-4'' and 120lb, that could shoot the head off a tweety at 10 paces with my old 44 mag. (that will shrink your manhood a bit), but she handled it with ease. SCARRY HUH! We parted on good terms.haha
that being said, my carry gun while hunting down here in the lower 48 is my XD 40. I hunt bear quite a bit, and im happy with it for ease of cary/concealment, and uuh-oh situations.
bigger is probably better for uuh-oh situations, but ill stick w/my 40 XD. Again, JMO
General Rule of thumb is, use what youd use for deer, or maybe a bit bigger.
Good luck wiyh your choice! Hard to go wrong with all the knowledgable advise from lots of guys on here. And youve recieved lots of it. All pretty good too.Comes down to your personal preferance and comfort i guess.
" jasonprox" has helped me out on AR questions. and if your looking for an excuse to go get a new toy for carying in the bushes, id look hard at what he has to say. JMO
As far as hand guns go,44 mag in a Ruger blackhawk is my personal favorite. you can load the snott out of a blackhawk. its quite a bit bigger than your 40, and a long time ago i dated a gal about 5'-4'' and 120lb, that could shoot the head off a tweety at 10 paces with my old 44 mag. (that will shrink your manhood a bit), but she handled it with ease. SCARRY HUH! We parted on good terms.haha
that being said, my carry gun while hunting down here in the lower 48 is my XD 40. I hunt bear quite a bit, and im happy with it for ease of cary/concealment, and uuh-oh situations.
bigger is probably better for uuh-oh situations, but ill stick w/my 40 XD. Again, JMO
General Rule of thumb is, use what youd use for deer, or maybe a bit bigger.
Good luck wiyh your choice! Hard to go wrong with all the knowledgable advise from lots of guys on here. And youve recieved lots of it. All pretty good too.Comes down to your personal preferance and comfort i guess.
Moki
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2009
- Messages
- 101
Latest update on my buddies Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM he has been in contact with Barnes since he first heard that they had supplied a propriety .375" cal 350gr TSX to a company over a year ago asking when they were going to release the bullet to the general public.
He received an email from Ty Herring @ Barnes a couple month's ago stating that the bullets were now available and that Ty would forward reloading data as soon as it was available.
He ordered the bullets which arrived a couple weeks ago and he received the data a week or so before that.
Due to the rifle only being 21" he choose to use RL17 which gives the same velocities in this short barrel as IMR4350 does in a longer 26" barrel.
With one load using the XS ghost ring sights he put 3 shots from a bench rest into a super tight cloverleaf group @ 50 yards it was 4" low which will be easy to adjust for and these were just the first loads he tried...
He now feels that he has the ultimate do everything hunting/defense rifle combo so stay tuned for another video of him shooting the 375RUM...
He received an email from Ty Herring @ Barnes a couple month's ago stating that the bullets were now available and that Ty would forward reloading data as soon as it was available.
He ordered the bullets which arrived a couple weeks ago and he received the data a week or so before that.
Due to the rifle only being 21" he choose to use RL17 which gives the same velocities in this short barrel as IMR4350 does in a longer 26" barrel.
With one load using the XS ghost ring sights he put 3 shots from a bench rest into a super tight cloverleaf group @ 50 yards it was 4" low which will be easy to adjust for and these were just the first loads he tried...
He now feels that he has the ultimate do everything hunting/defense rifle combo so stay tuned for another video of him shooting the 375RUM...
Last edited:
cavtrooper94
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 10, 2009
- Messages
- 284
I picked up a S&W 329pd in 44 Mag last week. It's pretty nice. Very lightweight for everyday packing and accurate. It has a sharp kick, but I didn't buy it for plinking, so I like it.
I've been a black bear guide for 20 years or so.
99% of the time they quietly avoid contact with people.
Very few things will tighten the old sphincter quite as fast as standing a few feet from one of those critters that is NOT wary of you.
Several close encounters come to mind...
I quickly learned to carry a short barrel 12 gauge back on forth to my baits.
I also slap the trees along "our" trails with a stick to let them know I'm coming.
99% of the time they quietly avoid contact with people.
Very few things will tighten the old sphincter quite as fast as standing a few feet from one of those critters that is NOT wary of you.
Several close encounters come to mind...
I quickly learned to carry a short barrel 12 gauge back on forth to my baits.
I also slap the trees along "our" trails with a stick to let them know I'm coming.
mopar440
Well-Known Member
41mag should be fine for black bear i use a 5.5in 44mag sbh with hogue girp the grip helped alot no on mini or anyother 223 even 7.62 handguns are best for defense just have it easy accessable and no how to draw quickly and shoot accurately i have want 460sm for a while its a very versitle hand gun 45lc 454cl and the 460sm if had to buy another other than the 460 it would 44mag redhawk
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
We are talking black bears here. Still potentially dangerous but considerablly less threat than a Grizzly. Also assuming just hiking and playing around in the woods but not hunting then carrying a long arm is probably not really handy. To much chance to get separated from it when you feel less threatened and then end up not having it handy when you really need it. Forget about a 223; too light caliber and it's still a rifle. That leaves us with something you don't mind wearing 100% of the time you are in a vulnerable place.
If I had a 4" 357 loaded with 158 SWC at 1250 fps or better it will work for black bears. Certainly the bigger caliber revolvers will work better and I like anything 41 mag and up. If I was buying new and wanted the ultimate it would be a S&W 500 in one of the shorter versions. Lot's of dry fire practice will leave you pretty proficient. Shooting full power loads for practice are not advised by me as I think they will cause all but the most experienced pistolero to flinch and develop very bad habits. Even light loads for a 500 S&W will be plenty for stopping the most determined black bear. Full power loads will knock them hard.
If you have a good reliable 40S&W I would consider 180 or 200 grain XTP's or ball loaded as hot as you can handle them would work better than nothing. Usually black bears are going to avoid you and most will pretty much leave at all costs if you open fire. I live a little ways south of you in Oregon and we have lots of bears. I retired my 5" 629 Classic in favor of a Glock Model 20 in 10mm loaded with 180 or 200 grain XTP's. I get 1325 out of the 180's and they penetrate deep causing a lot of destruction plus I have 15 of them on hand with out reloading. I traded a bit of power for a bunch of capacity. This is kind of what I'm hearing you looking for in your request. The 10mm is equal to or slightly surpases a 357 mag for power. It will be important to get some holster that will be comfortable to wear all day long and not interfere with the activities you want to do while you are out. You also need to be able to draw one handed pretty quck and from most positions.
I also like the idea of a Glock for self defense for a lot of reasons like, it has no external safety's to worry about. It is a point and shoot proposition. The are very tollerant of poor weather and very easy to clean. They will still work if very dirty or very cold. They are very light so easier to carry all day long. There is some guy on here that goes by Carlock who seems to know a bit about firearms. I believe I read somewhere he carries a Glock 20 while hunting and getting around in the woods. Now you know two people on LRH that carry a 10mm.
