Grizzly bear defense

[hnefatafl]

I just moved to Montana and am not seeing this to be a potential problem. They actually trapped one last summer near by where I just moved. After a couple days of reading I see some myths about bear spray vs gun. And I choose gun. And also I think in the event I see a bear the first thing I'll do is draw my pistol. That seems like a common mistake. People see the bear and start doing something else, maybe yelling, moving, getting bear spray, well I have made up my mind that I will go gun as I do whatever else I decided to do. A bear can cover 49 yards in 2 seconds I read. I am a former police officer and that's about the idea with a knife attack and 21 feet. So pistol first and fast.
I read a lot of old timers say a 44 mag and a lot of new timers say a Glock 10 mm.
To be honest my training will work the Glock a lot better but what is some of you old heads experience? I always like to deal in facts not what ifs.

Whatever you use... you have to train with it. Chris Forrest's (tacticmt) classes are exceptional. I suggest the 'surviving the griz' course if you can make it to Bozeman, you'll get up close and personal with a live grizzly and train with both spray and your handgun.

 

[seattleman1969]

Then again, do that in Montana, where the Governor I believe is one of the ones that shut down the grizzly bear season here in Wyoming, and you MAY be looking at some issues, I am unaware how the Montana G&F handles things up there. I'm still slightly bitter about that.....anyway, I digress.

It depends on the situation and if you can reasonably prove you were either being attacked or immediate imminent danger. If you can, great, if you cant... prepare for a court battle.

I may be speaking out of my lane a little but you might find the stress level between your average knife wielding crackhead and an 4-600 Lb carnivorous killing machine a little bit different. Regardless, nothing is 100% with a bear. If your shots don't kill it outright you will likely still get munched on because you ticked it off at worst. Bear spary tends to deter without causing damage and breaks their train of thought (That's the theory at least).

I carry spray... don't want to deal with the legal repercussions. Just my $.02

 

[boscodog]

It depends on the situation and if you can reasonably prove you were either being attacked or immediate imminent danger. If you can, great, if you cant... prepare for a court battle.

I may be speaking out of my lane a little but you might find the stress level between your average knife wielding crackhead and an 4-600 Lb carnivorous killing machine a little bit different. Regardless, nothing is 100% with a bear. If your shots don't kill it outright you will likely still get munched on because you ticked it off at worst. Bear spary tends to deter without causing damage and breaks their train of thought (That's the theory at least).

I carry spray... don't want to deal with the legal repercussions. Just my $.02

Some bears have responded like spray is hot sauce, as for me, I'd rather be around to fight another day. I posted earlier and I'm thinking that some people here do not understand. If ursus terribles is coming for you, you'd best put him down quickly. A 22 will kill a bear, what is needed in an attack situation is KNOCK DOWN ability. I carry a 500 Smith or a 45 -70 lever.

Tom

 

[Clearwater Alaska]

 

[memtb]

Quote: From Cowboy>>>>memtb: what brand and model is your chest holster?

Cowboy, Sorry it took so long to respond.....I got away from the thread! My cross -chest holster is a Kodiak by Galco. My holster is for a long barreled hunting handgun ....not practical for a quick access, defense handgun. I don't know if Galco makes a cross-chest for a short barreled handgun! I pretty pleased with the holster, and I also added the ammo holder, which attaches to the holster. This not only gives me more ammo, but also a couple of rounds of shot shells for my 460 S&W...rabbits, squirrels, and grouse. The holster is not cheap....but just another "hunting expense"! memtb

 

[Jjeffhunter]

I hunt and hike in grizzly country all the time I've carried both bear spray and my Smith scandium frame 44mag loaded with 305gr hard cast. With the wind in your face bear spray is pretty worthless unless you just want to blind yourself before the attack! Although in good conditions and very close range I've watched bear spray work and turn a bear dead in its tracks at 10feet away.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Stress inoculation doesn't hurt a bit when dealing with bears. Over the years I've had cops, fire fighters, e/r nurses and combat vets all due pretty well when we've delt with pushy bears. I've had a few people break and run, very bad; and a couple I had to quiet because their voice was squeaking so bad they sounded like a jack rabbit, and the bear was looking.
My greatest concern regarding things like this is the lack of planning or training involved.
There is a wealth of information out there on bear behavior, a bunch of it is good, some not so much. There are some folks who teach classes, worth doing if you're new to the subject. As with anything make sure they've actually seen a bear. One thing I've read often is don't look at the bear, don't look in his eyes. I will agree don't get in a fixed stare down but you better be watching his head and eyes for clues to his demeanor.
One more thing to remember; I've had at least one close encounter every year with a Grizz since 1959. Over the last 20 years of guiding on the bear infested Alaska peninsula I've averaged about 100 encounters a year, as many as 20 in a single day. (Yes many of those were the same bear coming and going).
Two bears needed killing; three needed pepper spray, the rest just needed respect and some room. I'm always armed, heavy hand gun or a rifle and spray. The closest I've been is five feet, s--t happens. Once had a big old Grizz wade out and start fishing between two of my guests. Never take them for granted, but there is nothing more stimulating then being close

 

[Guy M]

Salmonchaser - it is "interesting" when one wades right out and starts fishing between a couple of anglers. Been there. Not a bit of aggression displayed by the bear, he was quite willing to share the salmon run with us. We moved.

 

[Salmonchaser]

Salmonchaser - it is "interesting" when one wades right out and starts fishing between a couple of anglers. Been there. Not a bit of aggression displayed by the bear, he was quite willing to share the salmon run with us. We moved.

Yep, seen it a couple of times actually but just like you say. They just kinda wade out, nice and quiet, kinda like, don't mind me but this is my spot.
The bear always gets the spot, about the only thing I'll say always on with bears.

 

[D.Camilleri]

Not to take anything away from the Alaska guys, you have a lot of bears, but I believe the Wyoming/Montana bears are more confrontational or at least it seems like they are. Sows with cubs seem to be the biggest threats and they are very unpredictable. Many bears are seen and confronted in AK during fishing season when the bears have a full belly, the bears that are most troublesome in WY and MT are usually encountered during late fall when the bears are on an eating frenzy. I too am a former LEO and training is very important, when in doubt, my Raging Bull 454 loaded with 300 grain Nosler Partitions is in hand. I too have changed to a cross chest Alaskan holster. I have finished off antelope with my glock 22 .40 loaded with 180 gr hornady hollow points, and I have to say that I wasn't impressed with the results. Results with the 454 are much different. I finished off my first bull elk in Wyoming 20 years ago with a shot to the head, 2 inch exit hole through bone! When in Griz country you never know where you might come across one, but you have to run the scenario in your mind what you will do so you can react. My long range rifle has plenty of whomp to stomp a Griz if time allows, but the handgun has it's place, but it does have to be on your body and sometimes it is tempting to leave the extra 7 pounds in camp. When horseback I always have my sidearm on, because ***t happens and the thought of my horse dumping me and heading back to camp without me with my rifle in the scabbard isn't a good feeling. The other thing to be aware of in Griz country is what will you do if the encounter is in the dark..................

 

[Salmonchaser]

Not to take anything away from the Alaska guys, you have a lot of bears, but I believe the Wyoming/Montana bears are more confrontational or at least it seems like they are. Sows with cubs seem to be the biggest threats and they are very unpredictable. Many bears are seen and confronted in AK during fishing season when the bears have a full belly, the bears that are most troublesome in WY and MT are usually encountered during late fall when the bears are on an eating frenzy. I too am a former LEO and training is very important, when in doubt, my Raging Bull 454 loaded with 300 grain Nosler Partitions is in hand. I too have changed to a cross chest Alaskan holster. I have finished off antelope with my glock 22 .40 loaded with 180 gr hornady hollow points, and I have to say that I wasn't impressed with the results. Results with the 454 are much different. I finished off my first bull elk in Wyoming 20 years ago with a shot to the head, 2 inch exit hole through bone! When in Griz country you never know where you might come across one, but you have to run the scenario in your mind what you will do so you can react. My long range rifle has plenty of whomp to stomp a Griz if time allows, but the handgun has it's place, but it does have to be on your body and sometimes it is tempting to leave the extra 7 pounds in camp. When horseback I always have my sidearm on, because ***t happens and the thought of my horse dumping me and heading back to camp without me with my rifle in the scabbard isn't a good feeling. The other thing to be aware of in Griz country is what will you do if the encounter is in the dark..................

No question, I don't think the browns are predictable, interior bears less so. They didn't earn their name from Lewis and Clark for no reason. Thankfully we have long days when the bears are out. Mid to late August things change. The dogs alert, bear in camp, 2200 hours, step out side; its dark. Whole new ball game.

 

[boscodog]

Not to take anything away from the Alaska guys, you have a lot of bears, but I believe the Wyoming/Montana bears are more confrontational or at least it seems like they are. Sows with cubs seem to be the biggest threats and they are very unpredictable. Many bears are seen and confronted in AK during fishing season when the bears have a full belly, the bears that are most troublesome in WY and MT are usually encountered during late fall when the bears are on an eating frenzy. I too am a former LEO and training is very important, when in doubt, my Raging Bull 454 loaded with 300 grain Nosler Partitions is in hand. I too have changed to a cross chest Alaskan holster. I have finished off antelope with my glock 22 .40 loaded with 180 gr hornady hollow points, and I have to say that I wasn't impressed with the results. Results with the 454 are much different. I finished off my first bull elk in Wyoming 20 years ago with a shot to the head, 2 inch exit hole through bone! When in Griz country you never know where you might come across one, but you have to run the scenario in your mind what you will do so you can react. My long range rifle has plenty of whomp to stomp a Griz if time allows, but the handgun has it's place, but it does have to be on your body and sometimes it is tempting to leave the extra 7 pounds in camp. When horseback I always have my sidearm on, because ***t happens and the thought of my horse dumping me and heading back to camp without me with my rifle in the scabbard isn't a good feeling. The other thing to be aware of in Griz country is what will you do if the encounter is in the dark..................

Your bears in Wyoming and Montana are no more confrontational then the Bears here in Alaska! It may seem that way to you and possibly others, because, we have so much coastline and the Bears that are usually seen on TV and in most photographs are the big fat brownies that are well fed. The inland Grizzlies are always hungry and very tenacious anywhere!

Tom

 

[Salmonchaser]

Your bears in Wyoming and Montana are no more confrontational then the Bears here in Alaska! It may seem that way to you and possibly others, because, we have so much coastline and the Bears that are usually seen on TV and in most photographs are the big fat brownies that are well fed. The inland Grizzlies are always hungry and very tenacious anywhere!

Tom

I still want to go fishing with your grandson and hear his story, 10 12 years old and kills a charging bear.

 

[boscodog]

I still want to go fishing with your grandson and hear his story, 10 12 years old and kills a charging bear.

Hi salmon chaser,
you can go fishing with him and I'm sure my grandson would be happy to tell you the story while guiding you on a nice stream fishing expedition and or some deep-sea stuff. His father Lucas and his mother Brenda run Game Creek Guides, contact them at 907 321 9145 or 957 0045. I promise, they are as good as it gets! https://www.gamecreekguides.net/

For those who may be interested in the story about my grandson killing a charging mother brownie with cubs and saving six of his family members, you can read it here in this section.
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/alaska-boy-11-shoots-charging-brown-bear.188657/
Tom