How do you judge wind

[Ninering62]

That is a loaded question. I would refer to Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting. I would say, it just depends. What is your shot distance, speed, BC and so on? Does the bullet get pushed further off course in the final hundred yards when it is moving the slowest? There are a lot of factors that go into figuring the wind out.

EXACTLY

 

[Ken61]

I am familiar with the one shot zero.
I am also a knob clicker under some conditions. I have and use rangefinders so I have processes that work for me. I am 77 years old, still in good shape but I don't plan to go with the rangefinder talking to the phone talking to the scope and so on technology. I like the way I do it and thats what I'm going to do until the end.
I'm all for my grandkids using the new gee whiz stuff. Their minds can handle it.

 

[dfanonymous]

Well you know what is said about opinions, and i certainly wont attempt to stop you from you having one as well.
But im not aware of any laws saying people need to be agreeing on any one of them.
Again, ive watched some of the worlds best long range target shooters not even attempt to read the wind flags before firing their first sighter shot.
Where the shot landed is all they need to make adjustments.
Thats why many ranges have clay birds placed on the dirt berms between the target frames as well.

World best bench shooters… again, not the same a as a cold bore shot.

Bench shooters don't always make good PRS shooters. PRS shooting isn't the same thing as long range interdiction. Military isn't the same thing as King of the 2 mile…and bench shooting is certainly only one discipline version of long range shooting and probably the least experienced in good wind calling.

My point before and as others are saying is a lot of us will take the time to to get the first shot right first, vs winging it and walking the shot in.

While you're skeptical of others skills to read and shoot in wind, keep in mind some us are are a little bewildered at your method of using a holdover correction as a first shot on a game animal…

 

[RockyMtnMT]

World best bench shooters… again, not the same a as a cold bore shot.

Bench shooters don't always make good PRS shooters. PRS shooting isn't the same thing as long range interdiction. Military isn't the same thing as King of the 2 mile…and bench shooting is certainly only one discipline version of long range shooting and probably the least experienced in good wind calling.

My point before and as others are saying is a lot of us will take the time to to get the first shot right first, vs winging it and walking the shot in.

While you're skeptical of others skills to read and shoot in wind, keep in mind some us are are a little bewildered at your method of using a holdover correction as a first shot on a game animal…

I am asking this question because I don't know. How do you read the wind on a 1000y shot across a canyon that has a 1000 ft of elevation in the middle? What do you read for 975y, that there is nothing, so that you can get the cold bore shot on a 10" dia target? Keeping in mind that there is also up drafts and down drafts. I can't do it.

 

[dfanonymous]

I am asking this question because I don't know. How do you read the wind on a 1000y shot across a canyon that has a 1000 ft of elevation in the middle? What do you read for 975y, that there is nothing, so that you can get the cold bore shot on a 10" dia target? Keeping in mind that there is also up drafts and down drafts. I can't do it.

I mean, to fully answer how, I'd have to write a novel on here. People make their livings on teaching/writing/coaching just this.

Mirage; in short, for the empty mid ranges.
Shooter position as well.

Shooter position kestrel reading will be the baseline wind generally speaking anyways.
Unless you take a capturing a reading in a type of enclosure or enclosed terrain.

Generally, for normal rifles with mid to high BC's, you'll be looking being slightly above your wind gradient at your position at 1000y. That can be 2-4 mph more than you measured. Again, direction and speed verified with mirage or terrain. Wind at target, the same. You want to look at terrain, and mirage to add subtract and pull averages for shooter, mid, target.

It's not easy, it requires skill, experience and forethought. Even the whole smoke drifts thing stops being accurate after awhile. Trees bend differently depending on the tree. To be accurate, when you're doing your hike in, or with down time how often have you compared the kestrel readings to how the average tree and plant life in your area are moving? You know what I mean?

How many can say they time their shots into the wind? What if the gust is longer than the calm?

Edit; I forgot updraft: the typical updraft is momentary generally speaking. It's usually not significant to deviate your elevation any more than a typical rounding error, though yes out west it's common to experience it. The issue is even noticing but also deducing an updraft like at subsonic where the bullet had more exposure. Even then, it would have to be a pretty rough up draft. I'll admit, I don't shoot peak to peak where those HUGE updrafts happen. If it's going to take me 16 hours to walk down then walk back up another mountain, then it's probably not a shot I'm taking. Not because of distance, but because I don't want to feed the wolves and bears…plus I still have to walk back to the truck which is already god knows how far. I haven't even experienced that on sheep hunts.

 

[slam2107]

Wind is my passion, so if I sound like I am pontificating, my apologies. I built a house off grid in CO just so I could shoot every day in various wind conditions.

I use my side parallax to focus on mirage; it is why I love NF scopes. I have a March but it isn't nearly as "sensitive" as my NF scopes. Mirage is my No 1 method. If there is no mirage, I use a Kestrel but even more so, I use a wind flag made from a lightweight shock corded pole planted at my location. That gives me direction and wind value (esp if I compare the prevailing wind to the Kestrel reading). For wind direction at my target location (assuming no mirage), I look at vegetation - is the wind blowing the left side of the tree or the right side? Which side of a rock is the vegetation blowing?

The range obviously matters a lot. I have various gongs at my CO place; the 620 yard gong is 10x12, and with a Lapua, Edge, 300 RUM or 28N, it takes a pretty strong wind to hold 2 MOA; not so at 910 or farther. I have a gong at 760 that is a 15" circle; if the wind flag is blowing about 25 degrees, I hold on the edge and hit within 5" of center about every time. A 45 degree wind is 2 MOA, and if it is blowing hard enough that the flag (it is actually a piece of string) is higher than 45 degrees, I hold at least 3 MOA. Same wind is a 4 to 5 MOA hold at 910. I have similar rules if I can see the mirage.

I only practice long range shooting with my long range rifles. I have heard many say a .223 is great tool to learn the wind. I disagree; you need to shoot your LR rifles constantly or you will be subconsciously biased. I have a .338 WM with a B&C reticle. I shoot that at least once a day at 500 yards using only the reticle. The wind hold at 500 (225 Hornady SP) is far more than my .338 Lapua at 620. If I only shot that .338 WM, I would overcompensate when it came time to shoot the Lapua. Hitting something at 500 yards is infinitely easier than doing it at twice the distance.

I have said this many times, but the wind in the mountains at my CO place gust far more than the winds in the AZ desert. In AZ you almost always have mirage. I would also say the direction of the wind at my shooting site in AZ is almost always the same as at my target, but not so true in CO. I used to live in MN; when land is flat, the wind is much more consistent.

The worst wind is one that is fish tailing toward me or away. This is extremely difficult because a wind varying from 11 to 1 o'clock has a 1/2 full value either way. At 620 it doesn't matter much, but farther it becomes extremely difficult.

When I practice shooting in the wind I almost never take a second shot if I miss unless I want to confirm something weird (my 910 yard gong is up on a hill and once in a great while a "zero" wind is anything but). Correcting a miss isn't that difficult but you are not likely to get that chance hunting. In Colorado, I leave my rifles set up right outside the door of my loading room; when I see a wind condition that looks challenging, I shoot. Then I wait a while for a different condition. I normally take a shot at my 910 yard gong first thing in the morning but the wind is almost always calm (I do have to hold for spin however).

I don't practice on ranges with wind flags because they are too easy and you don't have them in the field. I video every LR shot I take in CO; it is a huge advantage. The bullet "puff" on the gong shows me the wind at the target the moment I pulled the trigger + TOF.

If there are rain drops, snowflakes, or weed debris blowing in the wind, they pretty much determine my wind call.

I do think shooting at one location leads to learning the local conditions and makes you think you are better than you really are. Shooting in the desert is a great way to "test" my wind skills after shooting for months in CO but something like PRS at different locations would be even better.

Until I got my place in CO and could shoot every day in various wind conditions, I really wasn't that great at wind calling. Being great includes knowing the wind condition that results in a high probability of missing or wounding, which you only learn by missing. I would say once your wind hold in MOA is twice your target size in MOA, your odds of missing increase rapidly. For example, a 10" target at 500 yards is 2 MOA; that means a four MOA wind hold is about max. At 1000 yards, that vital area is 1 MOA, so the max wind hold to assure a high probability of a hit is 2 MOA, which is not a very strong wind (it is a mouse fart if you shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor). The stronger the wind, the higher the standard deviation of the wind speed; combine that with TOF and you have two things working against you even if you are master wind caller.

Finally, I would add this: I got to "play" with the Trijicon Ventus when it was being evaluated. Sure, it didn't read wind past 500 yards, and it took a few seconds for it to read the wind, but it was amazing. I never missed at any range the day I got to use it. I never heard why they dropped it, but I suspect it wasn't a "cure all" - unlike laser rangefinders (and it had an outstanding one), the feedback had a very limited shelf life; by the time you measured it, the wind had likely changed. But knowing that the prevailing condition was 6 or 8 mph, for example, was huge. I was ready to fork over 15K for one.

LR Nut I think you have the best answer for learning to shoot in the wind Practice in controlled areas were you can see the results. We're l shoot max range is 900 3 different canyons the wind can blow different in each direction , after a while you can get the feel of it Doesn't mean a hit congratulations on your Colorado place

 

[Barehandlineman11]

When hunting i send a warning shot for fair chase then I know where to hold

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I mean, to fully answer how, I'd have to write a novel on here. People make their livings on teaching/writing/coaching just this.

Mirage; in short, for the empty mid ranges.
Shooter position as well.

Shooter position kestrel reading will be the baseline wind generally speaking anyways.
Unless you take a capturing a reading in a type of enclosure or enclosed terrain.

Generally, for normal rifles with mid to high BC's, you'll be looking being slightly above your wind gradient at your position at 1000y. That can be 2-4 mph more than you measured. Again, direction and speed verified with mirage or terrain. Wind at target, the same. You want to look at terrain, and mirage to add subtract and pull averages for shooter, mid, target.

It's not easy, it requires skill, experience and forethought. Even the whole smoke drifts thing stops being accurate after awhile. Trees bend differently depending on the tree. To be accurate, when you're doing your hike in, or with down time how often have you compared the kestrel readings to how the average tree and plant life in your area are moving? You know what I mean?

How many can say they time their shots into the wind? What if the gust is longer than the calm?

Edit; I forgot updraft: the typical updraft is momentary generally speaking. It's not significant to deviate your elevation any more than a typical rounding error. The issue is even noticing but also deducing an updraft like at subsonic where the bullet had more exposure. Even then, it would have to be a pretty rough up draft.

We have a spot that we shoot very often across a canyon. I have never seen mirage there. It most often has little to no wind at the shooting position. Most often it requires 2 moa wind hold at 900y. Sometimes it requires a wind hold the opposite of the wind direction at the shooting position. Very rarely is there any noticable wind in the far side of the canyon. We have shot there a few times when no wind hold is needed even though it is breezy at the shooting location.

Again, I by no means consider myself an expert at reading wind. Just the opposite.

 

[dfanonymous]

We have a spot that we shoot very often across a canyon. I have never seen mirage there. It most often has little to no wind at the shooting position. Most often it requires 2 moa wind hold at 900y. Sometimes it requires a wind hold the opposite of the wind direction at the shooting position. Very rarely is there any noticable wind in the far side of the canyon. We have shot there a few times when no wind hold is needed even though it is breezy at the shooting location.

Again, I by no means consider myself an expert at reading wind. Just the opposite.

We by no means will accomplish anything over the internet I'm sure. Though I'd like to see a picture of the shooting position in question if you have one.

The difference in holds left or right if the target is those thermals shift I mentioned. The wind will come in different from the morning to when it starts warming up and stuff.

You know how to focus out a little above the target to see mirage in the sky right?

That's where your wind is, at max ord as it goes across the canyon. Even then, it's around a 2.5 -4 mph wind at full value, if you're only holding 2 moa depending on cartridge.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We by no means will accomplish anything over the internet I'm sure. Though I'd like to see a picture of the shooting position in question if you have one.

The difference in holds left or right if the target is those thermals shift I mentioned. The wind will come in different from the morning to when it starts warming up and stuff.

You know how to focus out a little above the target to see mirage in the sky right?

That's where your wind is, at max ord as it goes across the canyon. Even then, it's around a 2.5 -4 mph wind at full value, if you're only holding 2 moa depending on cartridge.

I went through my photos and don't have a pic on the current phone. I don't know how to focus a little above the target to see mirage. There wouldn't be sky for another thousand feet above the target, if that makes a diff?

 

[Jeff Heeg osoh]

Just a few things
I look at Base line winds and predictions for the area I am shooting that day - Baseline is what the weather or airport readings are.

Then I look at what my winds are doing at my shooting area, the terrain will buffer out the Base line wind. I look at the terrain and picture how water would flow through the valleys, bluffs hills from the direction the wind is coming in, you will see where it could ramp up in speed, buffer out and cause churning effects as a Eddie. Wind and terrain is like water in a river.
I check the speed at my location with a Kestrel
I watch the mirage if able to tell me whats happening down range.
I watch the trees and weeds to see how hard the are being pushed by wind even if its calm where I am positioned.
And when dealing with strong cross winds I pay attention to how long my bullets apex could be above 20' from the surface - normally wind speeds are double the value 20' above the surface so in some cases I will add to my wind speed reading I have at the shooting point.
Also when shooting in heavy cross winds that require a fair amount of dialing or holding off I also dial or hold higher mattering on the distance when out at say 1500 -2500 because the actual travel of the bullet is longer - like a curve ball - versus shooting in better wind conditions and the impact will be short.

Just a few things I look at

Osoh
JH

 

[Beluebow]

Learning to read conditions takes a lot of time/practice/money. Lots of rounds down range is how you learn to read wind. You can read all the books and watch all the videos you can find, at the end of the day it's hands on training is where you learn.

If you "practice" twice a year at long range and think that's all it takes... you got lots of learning to do.

 

[yobuck]

The big difference of opinion here is between the shooters and the hunters.
Make up your mind that the very best shooters wont necessarily be the most successful hunters.
Sorry, but thats just the way it is.
The whole idea of practice practice practice is to a certain extent just BS, at least when it comes to the hunting part.
Certainly it requires a good shooter who is familiar with his equipment, but he need not be as good as many claim is necessary either.
When hunting, you shoot when the animal gives you a shot period.
You dont shoot while its walking, or stopped while standing behind a large tree, you shoot when you have a good clear standing shot.
As for the data, by the time you shoot it might well be obsolete, at least to some degree, but you know what?
Were going to find all that out right now by sending one over there.
And be ready to send a follow up just as fast as you can feed another one into the chamber.
Thats the type of a mindset it takes when (hunting) long range,
And if thats a turnoff for you, then so be it.
Just get off the gun and let somebody else shoot.

 

[wjm1000]

The big difference of opinion here is between the shooters and the hunters.
Make up your mind that the very best shooters wont necessarily be the most successful hunters.
Sorry, but thats just the way it is.
The whole idea of practice practice practice is to a certain extent just BS, at least when it comes to the hunting part.
Certainly it requires a good shooter who is familiar with his equipment, but he need not be as good as many claim is necessary either.
When hunting, you shoot when the animal gives you a shot period.
You dont shoot while its walking, or stopped while standing behind a large tree, you shoot when you have a good clear standing shot.
As for the data, by the time you shoot it might well be obsolete, at least to some degree, but you know what?
Were going to find all that out right now by sending one over there.
And be ready to send a follow up just as fast as you can feed another one into the chamber.
Thats the type of a mindset it takes when (hunting) long range,
And if thats a turnoff for you, then so be it.
Just get off the gun and let somebody else shoot.

Very true. I know from experience at shooting benchrest and hunting totally different circumstances.