How do you judge wind

[atepointer]

I agree to disagree…wind along the ENTIRE path of the bullet, and especially the last third of travel, where velocity has dropped the most is the most important. I use a spotter, actually have to, it's the rules and we use flags and a kestrel.
If hunting, judging wind is even more important, you need to practice, practice, practice shooting in the wind to know what to look for. In fact, with my crew of 4-6 always scout around for a corridor to shoot in with little to no wind…this doesn't always come to fruition, so we move on.

Cheers.

That's when my ELR shooting improved dramatically by paying the majority of my attention down range. At our 1 mile and 2k targets I pay little attention to the wind until the 1k berm. Even at that I pay attention to the mirage at the 1 mile way more than the flags which sit just under tree top level so they can fool new visiting shooters to no end. So many of the guys shooting ELR at our place come early and quit once the wind starts to blow a bit it's weird they only want trigger pull conditions. THAT's when the fun starts and the group I shoot with has our most fun and the thinking cap has to come out.

Couple of weeks ago at the firing line the wind you could feel on your back(south), wind flags at 800 were nearly limp say 2-3mph undecisive anywhere from SSW to SSE. The mirage at 1 mile was ripping full value out of the east 10+ fully laid over muy rapido sign wave, but the lone flag at 1 mile was moving maybe enough to just tell it was out of the east at times or south. My hold was 3.7 mils right. A kestrel or wind flag only read you'd of not even hit the berm going by what the shooting position of intermediate flags/grass told you.

Our range has some very odd wind issues to sort through and new kestrel only shooters typically pull their hair out. Having siad that I know it's a bit unique. I've not had a chance to shoot in a wide open prairie with no 50' tree lines, ditches etc to deal with, but I'd love to get in that realm and learn the wind nuances. The cerebral aspect of ELR is addicting. It's all fun!

 

[Lee7588]

I agree to disagree…wind along the ENTIRE path of the bullet, and especially the last third of travel, where velocity has dropped the most is the most important. I use a spotter, actually have to, it's the rules and we use flags and a kestrel.
If hunting, judging wind is even more important, you need to practice, practice, practice shooting in the wind to know what to look for. In fact, with my crew of 4-6 always scout around for a corridor to shoot in with little to no wind…this doesn't always come to fruition, so we move on.

Cheers.

I agree the latter part of the bullets travel when it has lost velocity and energy is effected more so than the first part.

I recently was shooting 22 lr with a family member out to 200 yds. We were shooting the same gun (his gun). After we finished shooting he made the comment that I read the wind much better than he does. My comment to him was that he shoots paper ( not a hunter), and I shoot animals. So for me being able to use the enviroment to read the wind is very important so I am not wounding an animal and having to track it.

 

[Lee7588]

That's when my ELR shooting improved dramatically by paying the majority of my attention down range. At our 1 mile and 2k targets I pay little attention to the wind until the 1k berm. Even at that I pay attention to the mirage at the 1 mile way more than the flags which sit just under tree top level so they can fool new visiting shooters to no end. So many of the guys shooting ELR at our place come early and quit once the wind starts to blow a bit it's weird they only want trigger pull conditions. THAT's when the fun starts and the group I shoot with has our most fun and the thinking cap has to come out.

Couple of weeks ago at the firing line the wind you could feel on your back(south), wind flags at 800 were nearly limp say 2-3mph undecisive anywhere from SSW to SSE. The mirage at 1 mile was ripping full value out of the east 10+ fully laid over muy rapido sign wave, but the lone flag at 1 mile was moving maybe enough to just tell it was out of the east at times or south. My hold was 3.7 mils right. A kestrel or wind flag only read you'd of not even hit the berm going by what the shooting position of intermediate flags/grass told you.

Our range has some very odd wind issues to sort through and new kestrel only shooters typically pull their hair out. Having siad that I know it's a bit unique. I've not had a chance to shoot in a wide open prairie with no 50' tree lines, ditches etc to deal with, but I'd love to get in that realm and learn the wind nuances. The cerebral aspect of ELR is addicting. It's all fun!

I like it, get the fundamentals down for shooting the range then take on the challenge of shooting that range in the wind

 

[Radman]

I posted this on another forum about judging wind and was curious as to what the thoughts on this is on this board.

I've been hunting and shooting long-range for around forty years and this is my thoughts on judging wind, First off I feel the wind closest to the shooting position is the most important. The reason I say that is, as the bullet exits the muzzle of the barrel two major factors act on it immediately, gravity and wind along with other environmental factors but I think gravity and wind are the most significant. A few thousands of movement at the muzzle can be huge at 1000 yards. Having said that as the bullet moves along it's flight path it can be and will be influenced by other whim's of the wind. What I do to judge the wind at different yardages is use the parallax to get a rough idea what the wind is doing at those yardages, as the bullet gets further from the shooting position and closer to the target the less important it becomes until I totally ignore what the wind is doing at the target because the bullet is already there. I'll watch the trees, grass and if there is any mirage I'll note the direction and speed that the mirage appears to be moving,

This is a very broad view of wind reading and just some of the basic things that I take into consideration. There is an article on one of the other forums by Shawn Carlock that goes into much more detail.

Before the advent of the kestrel this is how I judged the wind speed.
MPH Calm Smoke rises vertically
MPH 1-3, smoke will show direction of wind movement.
MPH 4-7, you can feel the wind on your face, leaves rustle.
MPH 8-12, leaves and small twigs in constant motion.
MPH 13-18, dust will stir up, tree branches will be in motion.
MPH over 19 and up I usually wont shoot unless constant.

I shoot frequently in hollows & up a draw (?). I have seen the wind in that draw come from completely opposite directions 4x times between me & my target on the mountain.
What gives me the best result is to adjust for the wind direction closest to the target where my bullet is slowest.

 

[Aussie Hunter Steve]

wind effect in simple form goes a bit like this-
Suppose there is a 2" wind drift in the first 100yds and no more wind affect from that distance, then at 1000yds the bullet will be 20" off course…..
If there is only wind for the last 100yds the bullet will arrive at the 900yd mark on line, and if velocity is only half of muzzle velocity it will drift 4" in the final 100yds, reaching the 1000yd mark only 4" off course.

In summary, the bullet will drift more as distance increases and the velocity reduces but wind closest to the muzzle will have greater affect on the overall drift.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Wind speed and direction at the Muzzle , the bench rest guys think that extremely important , Wind speed and direction at the target, I think those two conditions are also extremely important when hunting. Bullet Weight, G-1 BC, Bullet velocity, all very important. Add in Altitude and humidity to the mix, somewhat less important. I can honestly say that unless I can actually see the leaves and smaller branches moving on the hill beyond the 300 yard targets , I CANNOT read the wind even at that range . To read the wind at 700 to 1200 yards is an art and science. I will pay close attention to all your answers. Thank You , Thank You!!!!

 

[rm76]

Obviously judging and compensating for wind in real world shooting/hunting conditions is more of an art than a science. However, science can easily resolve the theoretical question of whether wind at the shooter or at the target influences point of impact more. I don't have the expertise to do this, but surely someone on this site has the knowledge and expertise in physics to make this comparison, and I hope someone will undertake this task. The question is simple: would a full value wind within the first 100 yards of the shooter affect distance of impact from the target more or less than the same full value wind within a 100 yards of the target (say at 1000 yards) with no wind in between -- given real ballistic parameters of BC, velocity, etc.? My bet is that wind within the first 100 yards in this theoretical will have the greatest effect on impact distance from the point of aim.

 

[wardog5]

I stand by my belief that the wind at the shooting position is more important than the last 1/3 of the bullet flight . It becomes a matter of time because the conditions has less time to effect the trajectory of the bullet where as the wind at shooting position has the whole length of the bullet flight to act upon it. Once the wind acts on the bullet it will continue moving in that direction, the further the distance the more it will move in the direction it was first acted upon. The conditions along the way will also effect the bullet flight but to a lesser extent. The wind along the bullet path would have much stronger than it was at the shooters position. Just my two cents,

If you are having success doing what you do my all means keep doing it.

 

[wardog5]

I agree

 

[rm76]

I agree

Aussie Hunter Steve gives the clearest, most pertinent explanation in general for this question, and must have posted while I was still typing. Still, I would hope someone could provide real calculations based on actual data from a given set of conditions.

 

[Lee7588]

If the wind closest to the barrel is the most important when shooting long range, what do you do if there is no wind within the first 300 yds of the barrel but picks up beyond 300 yds? Is the wind or lack of wind closest to the muzzle still the most important?

 

[Lee7588]

We have a spot that we shoot very often across a canyon. I have never seen mirage there. It most often has little to no wind at the shooting position. Most often it requires 2 moa wind hold at 900y. Sometimes it requires a wind hold the opposite of the wind direction at the shooting position. Very rarely is there any noticable wind in the far side of the canyon. We have shot there a few times when no wind hold is needed even though it is breezy at the shooting location.

Again, I by no means consider myself an expert at reading wind. Just the opposite.

So you are shooting 900 yds and you know sometimes you are 2 moa one way, sometimes 2 moa the other way, and rarely no wind hold. How do you read the wind at the 900 yds to know which way to hold for windage? Is it just a shoot till you hit then you know or flags?

 

[dug]

Wind as the bullet starts its path is important as it takes alot more wind to change that drifting direction,and bullet yaw .
the second most important wind call is at the 2/3's total yardage ,which is the highest part of the bullets path to target. The higher off the ground ,the less resistance from brush trees ect. and higher the wind speed is there. This is all after you use what you have for the direction of wind , dust ,pollen, mirage,
paralax knob for adjusting focus of these at ranges between you and target. Longer ranges with larger bullet path of arc matters . Wind speed is important as well and can factor into the vertical dope from aerodynamic jump.
its all an educated guess at the exact time you read the tools , it can change in an instant and as the shooter you can miss the change . If you have a spotter he watches the wind condition through the shot and relays any change that happen during staging trigger thru TOF
deep canyons ,rock faced cliffs , powerlines cut through tall trees can really swirl the winds .
shooting in open high plains has been alot easier than in the mountains ,deep draws and thermo as the sun starts the day is a nightmare , as is the last hr of the hunting light when the sun sets .
this is my experience shooting at distance for fun and for score and its worth what each and everyone of you paid for it.

 

[wjm1000]

If the wind closest to the barrel is the most important when shooting long range, what do you do if there is no wind within the first 300 yds of the barrel but picks up beyond 300 yds? Is the wind or lack of wind closest to the muzzle still the most important?

The first wind that the projectile encounters has the most impact on the projectile. At what ever distance that may be it is the closest to the muzzle.