Nah, they are in the right thread
Bullet Construction vs Lethality
- Thread starter nralifer
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Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
Must just be me then (in the wrong thread)
diggdugg70
Active Member
You're 100% correct In states that don't require them, but in places that do you no choice if you want to hunt.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I think that you will find an awful lot of LRH posters in disagreement with that statement. If there are "zero" reason to use copper bullets in states that don't require them; why are so many of us using them? It certainly isn't to save money. LOL
That is a very convincing image of expansion for your copper BD2 solids. One deterrent for me is the requirement for a very long magazine/action for heavy-for-caliber (and thus highest BC) bullets. Unfortunately, that is just physics at work. There was a company making high precision Cu solids that published max/min bullet protrusion specs, suitability for magazine/single feed for various cartridges, G7 BC's, and tailored reloading data for their drive band bullets. They also had gyro stability vs. twist for each bullet. That would be really nice to have for your BD2s.
Agreed! No matter how you look at it, there is currently a HUGE disproportion between lead and lead-free users.
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"Bullet Construction vs Lethality"
I don't view it as a one vs the other.
I am encouraged on the terminal performance development & improvement approach of a couple manufacturers. Namely Apex & Hammer.
Good things to come.
I don't view it as a one vs the other.
I am encouraged on the terminal performance development & improvement approach of a couple manufacturers. Namely Apex & Hammer.
Good things to come.
W
Wyo37
Guest
Nevermind, that was rude
Not sure all of the reasons. I'd love to know just how many of the 120,000+ members here use which type of bullet, or at least their main preference, if for nothing else to satisfy the curiosity.
I'd venture to say copper bullets are such a hot topic and get talked about so much anymore that it's often assumed so many are using them. As in more than may actually be using them.
I feel confident though, by the evidence of supply and demand, that lead core bullet use still FAR outnumbers copper bullet use.
And I know many that use copper bullets are only doing so because they believe they're better for the environment, better for their own health, and believe the marketing that they're better than lead core bullets regarding terminal performance. And I'm not saying they're right or wrong, because that's not my point at the moment. I'm just saying that there are plenty using them based purely on their own perceptions and opinions. Those people would be no more right and no more wrong than those saying there's zero reason to use them other than a law/regulation.
I say use what you want, but have the knowledge to empower you to succeed. That means know how to pick the right bullet, no matter its composition, for your particular needs. Know the limitations of it and how to adjust for them on the fly.
Threads like this SHOULD be used to help us do just that. They should help us figure out what works best with each design and how to apply it. It's unfortunate they tend to just turn people against one another and they fight about irrelevant things and personal preferences more than anything else.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I have a fairly extensive inventory of reloading components on hand. I like to experiment with the latest & greatest components as they come out. I've shot my share of Barnes monos, CE monos and Nosler monos over the years. I'm still fooling around with various Hammer monos. But ....... I certainly haven't moved past traditional cup & core bullets. The vast majority of my shooting is with lead based bullets but the Hammer bullets have been my go-to hunting bullets for the last few years.
I'm not hunting with Hammers for any particular reason other than they shoot well and harvest game effectively. All the critters that I've shot with them seem to hate em'.
I'm not hunting with Hammers for any particular reason other than they shoot well and harvest game effectively. All the critters that I've shot with them seem to hate em'.
From my personal consumer perspective I'll provide the following for mono manufacturers to consider.
When I evaluate an offering I look at what is available on the market & how each bullet is designed to perform terminally. I have my preference based on experience & manufacturers field research & testing.
I also consider the parameters of my
application for use.
For me I'm focused on Terminal Performance design & function first, with other factors such as Ballistic Performance,
Material Quality, etc. to provide the best possible option currently available to me.
Also a factor I consider amongst the myriad of options currently available is a manufacturer's activity in their product improvement approach.
I've noticed that a few companies have similar end goals with similar or different approaches to achieving the same results. Some rest on their current offerings & tout it as their best, which is fine, but if I determine that it doesn't meet my expectations & I perceive that company as not focused on improving their product that could possibly meet my expectations, then I'll focus my attention on other offerings.
I'm encouraged by the recent growth in mono bullet manufacturing.
Some focus on Ballistic Flight performance first with Terminal Performance secondary. Others take the opposite approach.
Either approach is great as long as there is a continuous improvement approach in all aspects to address overall bullet performance.
The Perfect Bullet may or may not be out there, but The Best currently available for my use is.
That's what I'm after.
When I evaluate an offering I look at what is available on the market & how each bullet is designed to perform terminally. I have my preference based on experience & manufacturers field research & testing.
I also consider the parameters of my
application for use.
For me I'm focused on Terminal Performance design & function first, with other factors such as Ballistic Performance,
Material Quality, etc. to provide the best possible option currently available to me.
Also a factor I consider amongst the myriad of options currently available is a manufacturer's activity in their product improvement approach.
I've noticed that a few companies have similar end goals with similar or different approaches to achieving the same results. Some rest on their current offerings & tout it as their best, which is fine, but if I determine that it doesn't meet my expectations & I perceive that company as not focused on improving their product that could possibly meet my expectations, then I'll focus my attention on other offerings.
I'm encouraged by the recent growth in mono bullet manufacturing.
Some focus on Ballistic Flight performance first with Terminal Performance secondary. Others take the opposite approach.
Either approach is great as long as there is a continuous improvement approach in all aspects to address overall bullet performance.
The Perfect Bullet may or may not be out there, but The Best currently available for my use is.
That's what I'm after.
Yep. I have a high desire to keep testing and to keep up with the latest and greatest. I'm always looking for a better mousetrap or just different types of mousetraps, so to speak, and regardless of whether I decide it's my new go-to bullet.
I prioritize my testing based on what excites me the most. The Apex Afterburners, for example, went right to the top of my list last year. I was not disappointed with that decision. Hammers are on my list for personal tests, but I have fiends that have tested them and they wouldn't be my friends if I didn't trust them lol. I don't have any friends that have tested Afterburners before I did. Again, just giving examples based on reading the room.
If you have been happy with Hammers for your hunts, especially happier than other bullets you've used, that ought to be good enough reason for you, and ought to be for me and anyone else as well to accept it. If that bullet happened to be a Barnes, the same would apply, or any other brand.
Now, if you were having issues with that bullet, people might be quick to offer recommendations as to why or another bullet to use. As long as it's done in good taste and makes sense, and they provide supporting reasoning, that should be acceptable I would think. That goes for maybe someone seeing something in a picture, video, or even the description given that the poster did not notice. Lots of good can come from those instances. Again though, it ought to be constructive and not destructive in nature. That's the difference.
My philosophy has been and continues to be that we should have all the options we have and be able to pick our poison based on preference or other reasons. It's better to figure out how to get the best out of each option rather than fight about which one is best and what everyone should be using. All that does is breed animosity, friction, and cause us to turn on each other.
We seem to fight a lot on whose opinion and preference is best and right or wrong or more right lol. That doesn't seem very reasonable to me.
nralifer
Well-Known Member
The Bulldozer shown in the pic will fit comfortably in a short action 308 mag at 2.950 COAL and out penetrate 180 gr lead core bullets, shooting flatter and penetrating much deeper than heavier lead core bullets. The whole notion that you need a heavy copper bullet to equal the performance of a heavy lead core is not true. The light for caliber bullets will work as well or better. The BC on the 308 BD2 150 gr is higher than the Sierra 175 gr Match King and can be launched at higher MVs
RichCoyle
Well-Known Member
The first guy didn't say why. Maybe you will. Tell us why using copper bullets is not absolutely great.
