Your Ultimate 500 Yard Rig

[bdlesh]

I am ironing out the details for a 338 Sherman max. I will build it on a Rem700 long action with a 26" 9 twist, still working on the manufacturer. I was going with a walnut stock, but have come to the conclusion a composite will be better. I won't feel bad as I would when the wood stock gets beat up. As for a scope, I feel a 3-18x of some sort will do me just fine. After all....It will be a hunting rifle with most shots under 500 yards. I am wanting something practical and not over the top.....but that's me...for this one

 

[NeoConShooter]

UPDATE: Complete Bestill Creations LLC custom muzzleloader, with updated photos

From the original .50cal, to a complete custom .45cal. Muzzleloader.
There is absolutely zero issues pushing this to and well past 500yds.

With BH209 it sends a 275gr, .450" bullet out the bore at 2,500fps

Shooting smokeless propellant, it'll send a 300gr, .450" bullet at 2,900fps

View attachment 140320 View attachment 140321 View attachment 140322 View attachment 140323

At 107yds it'll send 5 through the same hole

View attachment 140324

NEAT! What is the remaining velocity at 500 yards with the pictured bullet of how many grains?

 

[NeoConShooter]

By Point Blank Range, you aren't talking about the muzzle touching fur. You mean the distance at which the bullet doesn't rise nor fall distances that equal the size of the kill zone, correct?

Yes, the technical definition of PBR means that with the cross hairs on the MoT the highest point of the trajectory will not be above the spinal column, or below the center of the heart. PS. MoT = (Vertical) Middle of Target!

 

[NeoConShooter]

Been looking into it, few guys that run 16's are getting 2650-2680 some 2700 with a suppressor with 140's. I know not super flat but....it's really what I'm getting out of my Gap-10 currently with Its 21" barrel

I could just pull my 300AX out if I want a laser. 5.2 moa to 500 with a 100 yard zero

What is a 300AX? What is the highest point of the trajectory with that 5.2 MoA? What is the range at which the lowest shot of the group will hit within 8" of the point of aim? What is the PBR with a maximum vertical dimension of 16" with all shots inside that number?

 

[NeoConShooter]

My 20" with a can is running a 140 at 2800. With the right powder choice I could see a 16 and can being around 2700. I would imagine 1400 lbs of energy and 2100 fps at 500 for that set up.

Have you measured the chamber pressure and actual MV with that load at 2800FPS?

 

[NeoConShooter]

I was gonna say I already have mine. It's a very light weight all ti and carbon from pierce. And yes it's a creed. For 500 yards why not those hammer hunters have shown me nothing that wouldn't give me confidence at that range. I would like to build the same gun but long action in a .338 laps improved one day. Just because I have a barrel to fire form with.
I know the creed is not what most like and some twats really think it's better than a win mag. That being said if you think a .308 or 7mm 08 is ok the then so should the creed.

I would think that 140 grain bullets out of the Creed case which is slightly smaller than the 7-08 case would have less MV at any given pressure"? The MV listed in Wiki is 2,710 out of a 28" BBL at 62-63,100 PSI? IIRC Factory ammo for a 7-08 140 grain load is 2,810 FPS out of a 24" BBL?
I wonder how the ability of the slightly higher BC of the .264 caliber 140 Grain bullet could make up the 100 or more FPS difference out of a shorter BBL over a similar tipped .284" bullet at +-500 yards?
You see, I have a hard time believing it when people claim much higher MV from hand-loads that have not been pressure checked out of shorter BBLs than factory ammo that is already loaded to over 62K-PSI?
Lastly, IIRC the feds think it takes a thousand foot pounds of energy to reliably take an elk. This puts a very real maximum range on smaller bore rifles that has nothing to do with trajectory!
I'd like to know your thoughts on these questions.

 

[NeoConShooter]

May I ask what is lacking about the Lapua, for it to need "improved" ? They've killed insurgents at over a mile. I would think it was good enough. But I also understand the want for mo-powa. That's why I use a .300 Win Mag and not a .308. Not attacking your choices, just curious.

Shooting big game is not in the same moral class as shooting varmints, or military sniping! On the other hand, more MV with bigger bullets is more fun! I used to own a .338-.50 Cal that launched the 300 Grain SMK at 3,850 FPS and I can say with some authority that it shot flatter and farther than any other rifle I have ever owned.

 

[djm670]

I would think that 140 grain bullets out of the Creed case which is slightly smaller than the 7-08 case would have less MV at any given pressure"? The MV listed in Wiki is 2,710 out of a 28" BBL at 62-63,100 PSI? IIRC Factory ammo for a 7-08 140 grain load is 2,810 FPS out of a 24" BBL?
I wonder how the ability of the slightly higher BC of the .264 caliber 140 Grain bullet could make up the 100 or more FPS difference out of a shorter BBL over a similar tipped .284" bullet at +-500 yards?
You see, I have a hard time believing it when people claim much higher MV from hand-loads that have not been pressure checked out of shorter BBLs than factory ammo that is already loaded to over 62K-PSI?
Lastly, IIRC the feds think it takes a thousand foot pounds of energy to reliably take an elk. This puts a very real maximum range on smaller bore rifles that has nothing to do with trajectory!
I'd like to know your thoughts on these questions.

Directly from the Hornady Ammunition site:
TEST BARREL (24")
MUZZLE
100 YARDS
200 YARDS
300 YARDS
400 YARDS
500 YARDS

VELOCITY
(FPS)
ENERGY
(FT/LB)
TRAJECTORY
(INCHES)
2700
2315
-1.5
2557
2076
1.9
2419
1858
0
2285
1658
-7.9
2156
1475
-22.4
2030
1308
-44.4

That is 1308 ft-lbs at 500 yards with a 24" barrel with a 2700 fps muzzle velocity and a 143 grain bullet. The same data shows a 150 grain ELD X bullet (same shape and construction as the 143 CM) for the 7-08 which has a muzzle velocity of 2770 and `1381 ft-lbs of energy at 500 yards with a 24 inch barrel. They are very close and both are 300 ft-lbs over your referenced 1000 ft-lbs federal limit.

While you may look at at a 6.5 CM as a step down from what you view as an elk rifle, I look at it as a step up. I started and aged using a .25-06 to shoot most of my elk and I grew up in Montana with Elk across from the house in the hay meadow most every day of the summer. I have probably never shot an elk at over about 450 yards and I typically use 26 inch barrels to get as much velocity as I can from a given cartridge. But if necessary, would not hesitate to shoot one at 500 to 550 yards if the conditions and the circumstances permitted it.

That said, I am looking to build a 6.5 PRC with a 26 to 27 inch barrel to up the energy as I am aging. That said I see you sleep about as much as I do ..

 

[NeoConShooter]

Directly from the Hornady Ammunition site:
TEST BARREL (24")
MUZZLE
100 YARDS
200 YARDS
300 YARDS
400 YARDS
500 YARDS

VELOCITY
(FPS)
ENERGY
(FT/LB)
TRAJECTORY
(INCHES)
2700
2315
-1.5
2557
2076
1.9
2419
1858
0
2285
1658
-7.9
2156
1475
-22.4
2030
1308
-44.4

That is 1308 ft-lbs at 500 yards with a 24" barrel with a 2700 fps muzzle velocity and a 143 grain bullet.

So your rifle has plenty of energy? But maxes out on trajectory at +-300 Yards? Just curious, but what do the Hornady Superformance 7-08 140 & 150 grain loads like?

 

[NeoConShooter]

Just for Sh*ts & giggles, the 7mm-08 info below;
Test Barrel (24")
Muzzle
100 Yards
200 Yards
300 Yards
400 Yards
500 Yards

Velocity
(FPS)
Energy
(ft/lb)
Trajectory
(inches)
2950
2686
-1.5
2757
2345
1.5
2571
2040
0
2393
1768
-6.8
2222
1524
-19.7
2059
1308
-39.6
WOW! The 7mm-08 seems to have a flatter trajectory and more than enough energy?

 

[djm670]

Just for Sh*ts & giggles, the 7mm-08 info below;
Test Barrel (24")
Muzzle
100 Yards
200 Yards
300 Yards
400 Yards
500 Yards

Velocity
(FPS)
Energy
(ft/lb)
Trajectory
(inches)
2950
2686
-1.5
2757
2345
1.5
2571
2040
0
2393
1768
-6.8
2222
1524
-19.7
2059
1308
-39.6
WOW! The 7mm-08 seems to have a flatter trajectory and more than enough energy?

i think we can assume that the superformance powder used in the ammunition you are siting has higher pressures than that used in the precision ammo I was comparing trying to be show equal performance.

I am sure that if you used the same powder and the same type and weight bullet that the 6.5 would have flatter trajectory and more energy farther out as it has less wind resistance. While the wound channel would be slightly larger in diameter with the 7 mm bullet.

I am not here to argue with you.. just wanted to show that they are about equal at 500 yards.. and in my eyes, the creedmoor has enough energy to meet your 1000 ft-lb of 500 energy criteria. Nothing more nothing less.. I shoot what I do and have had no problem killing elk ethically with lesser cartridges such as a .25-06. You do it your way and I will do it my way.

Additional recoil of larger heavier bullets/cartridges are not fun for me and do not aid in my ability to accurately place my bullets point of entry.

You might ask but why build a 6.5 PRC then? And the answer would be because building or assembly of another rifle is as enjoyable and almost as much fun as shooting it.

 

[FEENIX]

I shoot what I do and have had no problem killing elk ethically with lesser cartridges such as a .25-06. You do it your way and I will do it my way.

Agreed! This is why ethics is rule #1 ...

 

[BrentM]

Have you measured the chamber pressure and actual MV with that load at 2800FPS?

Chamber pressure measurement? No. Very few people have that ability. There are lots of ways of determining psi. I have confirmed drop with actually shooting to 1100 and use a magnetospeed.

 

[snox801]

I was also not trying to start anything. Or even saying the creed was better. Just pointing out how many on here will jump up and say .308 or 7mm08 is fine for elk but not the creed. They are so close in real life. Of course you must consider everything before. So many variables. Plus what you feel is ethical. I don't take a shot I'm not 99 percent I'm sure I'll make. That way I know I did my best. Because even when we are sure we can make it nerves or other things can happen.