This is whats wrong with hunting today

[CMP70306]

Throw "Creedmoor" after anything and these wankers will worship it.

I'm probably going to get one at some point because it feeds better from AICS mags and has better brass options since Lapua dropped the .22-250.

Lots of plastic stocked rifles (ugly?) with big scopes & suppressors. What's next - radar fire control processor hooked up to video display on helmet?
I plan to eventually get a 22 CM instead of a .22-.250 AI, small primer brass.

I love wood stocked rifles but my carbon fiber ones get significantly less beat up while driving through thick cover, the big scopes let me see better and my ears don't ring for days with the suppressor.

I've still got one, bought it in 1977 when I bought my new model 70 30-06, I was 16. It's a metallic silhouette and move something like 5/8" per click. I've killed a bunch of deer and groundhogs using it.

I grew up shooting a Wide Field Redfield, first on my .243 then my Grandfathers 760 then on my Pre-war Model 70. Had to put it to rest in the safe after I tried to shoot a deer that I could clearly see with my eyes but couldn't pick up in the scope due to the lighting.

One thing I do not miss was trying to sight them in as the lines on the turret were a suggestion of 1/2 MOA at best. It was more like one line was somewhere between 0 and 3 MOA and every time you turned it it was different.

For me (the video) it has nothing to do with the caliber. It's about his "facts" and how they are presented. He was comparing an 80gr bullet in the creed to a 55gr bullet in the 250. In that scenario the creed wins hands down at long range. Run the same bullet in the 250 and make the comparison.

Honesty and integrity has slipped away from our world for the most part.

The main issue is that the vast majority of .22-250's have either 12 or 14 twist barrels limiting them to the 60gr and under class barrels. With a modern 8 twist barrel they are pretty much the same performance but the .22 Creed has a few tweaks to better run in ACIS mags.

22 is the new 338, or is that the creed, and why does he naturally assume everyone can't handle or shoot well the larger calibers, especially considering most today shoot breaks or suppressors. To many speak for others when they should be speaking for themselves, and many times with little to no experience to make a quick vid. I say that because if they did these ignorant vids wouldn't be made in the first place.

He goes on to boast to the advantage of the prc's high bc, of course comparing an 80 gr vs a 50 gr, yet then turns around and has an excuse of why the 22250 is 3-400 fps faster only because it uses a 50 grain not an 80. Clearly he want the sell with the apples to oranges.

I use to think many played dumb for views or just as a salesman to push something, but I'm beginning to think it's not an act and people are actually that dumb.

As I stated above the vast majority of .22-250's are limited by barrel twist so the 80gr to 50gr is a fair comparison.

 

[Calvin45]

I'm probably going to get one at some point because it feeds better from AICS mags and has better brass options since Lapua dropped the .22-250.

I love wood stocked rifles but my carbon fiber ones get significantly less beat up while driving through thick cover, the big scopes let me see better and my ears don't ring for days with the suppressor.

I grew up shooting a Wide Field Redfield, first on my .243 then my Grandfathers 760 then on my Pre-war Model 70. Had to put it to rest in the safe after I tried to shoot a deer that I could clearly see with my eyes but couldn't pick up in the scope due to the lighting.

One thing I do not miss was trying to sight them in as the lines on the turret were a suggestion of 1/2 MOA at best. It was more like one line was somewhere between 0 and 3 MOA and every time you turned it it was different.


The main issue is that the vast majority of .22-250's have either 12 or 14 twist barrels limiting them to the 60gr and under class barrels. With a modern 8 twist barrel they are pretty much the same performance but the .22 Creed has a few tweaks to better run in ACIS mags.


As I stated above the vast majority of .22-250's are limited by barrel twist so the 80gr to 50gr is a fair comparison.

Oh for sure I don't think the .22 creed is a bad idea…heck maybe one day I'll have one. Makes a ton of sense, definitely the easy button solution for a big long range capable target varmint and even small deer 22 centerfire…it's just the clickbait title of the original video that irks us here I think.

"The ultimate hunting caliber?"

No. Not even remotely. No .22 or 6mm (and in my opinion no .25 or .26 cal either) is the ultimate big game hunting caliber. They can be great for some tasks but there's a good reason the 7mm and 30 calibers on cases from the .308 size on the bottom end and moving up in size from there reign supreme as truly versatile and capable all range all non-dangerous big game hunting cartridges that most folks can still shoot well from rifles that don't require a wheelbarrow to lug around haha. The .33s and up are great too no doubt but not as versatile, practical, and importantly not as accessible and shootable for the average person. The 6.5s and such can do a great deal as well no doubt but I still think the 7mm and .30 cals are the ultimate big game calibers. Just my opinion.

It is also of note to me that the most successful and proven full size battle rifle cartridges since the advent of smokeless powder and spitzer bullets fall between .264/6.5mm and .323/8mm. Going bigger or smaller than those parameters results in some major compromises and limitations to versatility and effectiveness, and much the same is true with hunting rifles.

 

[Knight]

Rifle Calibers are like golf clubs, would you put with a woody or a 5 iron? Nuff said.

 

[del2les]

CMP70306 said:
"The main issue is that the vast majority of .22-250's have either 12 or 14 twist barrels limiting them to the 60gr and under class barrels. With a modern 8 twist barrel they are pretty much the same performance but the .22 Creed has a few tweaks to better run in ACIS mags"

The old and still current Speer 70gr semi-spitzer would stabilize in a lot of the older twist 22/250 and 220 Swfits when pushed to top speeds. Also, the Sierra 63gr SMP would stabilize in a 1/14"tw 222 and had no issues in a 1/12"tw 223 and faster cartridges. We shot a fair amount of deer and other with these two bullets back in those days.

My current standard 22/250 from the 90's came with a 1/9"tw barrel, but they were rather had to find then, and it stabilizes the 75 AMAX and ELD. However, when I built my 22/250-AI years ago, I went with a 1/8"tw to run the then new VLD's. Glad I did, for now we have the 88's that work well. I wish when I rebarreled the standard 22/250 I had gone with a 1/8"tw instead of going back with the 1/9".

 

[buzby]

Well your experience sure doesn't mirror mine. I'm just glad my friends that used to use them in a hunting role quit with them. The late night phone calls and trailing gets old. I've killed over 1000 deer and hogs and generally add about 100 each year now.. 95% of those now each year are killed with the Grendel. Throw in another 100 or so that I see killed by family and friends each year. We have a very serious deer problem. Bullets have changed but the thinking around here has not when it comes to 6mm. The 243 has been relegated to depredation shooting and being a truck gun. Where it does stellar work. Very few people even buy them for their kids to use anymore. I had an FFL for 10 years and can't remember selling more the 2 or 3. They use 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 Sweed, 7mm-08 or download 270, 308, and 30-06. Deer are hunted with 25-06 and up. But we see few 25-06s around. The most numerous caliber by far being the 270 Winchester. 2nd would be the 30/06 3rd 7mm-REM mag and throw in a 270 WSM occasionally. My experience with 243 was that even with a perfect hit deer ran farther and bled less. Yes it killed the animal. But the extra distance and less blood were a bit contrary to my wants and needs. I'm simply not a fan.

If I'm reading this correct, you don't like .243 but do like a 6.5 Grendel, or .25-06?

So a 14 or 21 thousandths of an inch bigger diameter bullet makes a bigger difference than what bullet is used?

 

[buzby]

Rifle Calibers are like golf clubs, would you put with a woody or a 5 iron? Nuff said.

That might be one of the worst analogies I've heard.

bullet diameter = golf club

 

[2Rope]

I've killed 95% of the big game with a .270 or 7 Rem mag with a Leupold scope, no can or muzzle brake, and no range finder. I don't fit in with the long range guys , my longest kills are just over 500 yds. I guided deer and elk hunts for over 20 years and it's my opinion that it takes more gun than the 6.5 creed unless in the hands of a marksman. It seems like the least experienced hunters shoot the weak calibers due to recoil and the hunters that carry the bigger ones can shoot them… kinda opposite of how it should be. I've killed 1200 pound beef cattle with a .22 pistol, but I would never say that you should hunt big game with one.

 

[del2les]

I've killed 95% of the big game with a .270 or 7 Rem mag with a Leupold scope, no can or muzzle brake, and no range finder. I don't fit in with the long range guys , my longest kills are just over 500 yds. I guided deer and elk hunts for over 20 years and it's my opinion that it takes more gun than the 6.5 creed unless in the hands of a marksman. It seems like the least experienced hunters shoot the weak calibers due to recoil and the hunters that carry the bigger ones can shoot them… kinda opposite of how it should be. I've killed 1200 pound beef cattle with a .22 pistol, but I would never say that you should hunt big game with one.

I'm not sure about that. I have nearly 60 years of experience, and I have killed numerous game with all sorts of calibers and cartridges, large to small, handguns to bows even a spear. And as a past 50 BMG shooter, recoil has never been an issue. I still own and shoot numerous "magnums" and currently load for 52 cartridges.

I like trying new and different things, discovering for myself what is and isn't possible and not following the "group think" crowd. Deer aren't that hard to kill, and especially with more modern, heavy for caliber VLD type, Bonded and mono bullets. Are the 22's, 6mm's and 25's a do all end all? Of course not, but like every caliber and cartridge ever created, they do work within their limits and realms. With modern bullet choices, even better than before.

When I began hunting and then shooting competitively, their were no VLD bullets as we know them today, but that did not stop us from shooting NM courses, Palma and 1,000yd courses with what we had back then. Heck, LR hunting wasn't even a thing for about 99.5% of hunters, and those of us who were doing it were called all kinds of things - Regardless of the calibers/cartridges we used. Similar is happening now.

It wasn't that long ago when hunters, shooters, magazine writers and ballisticians were arguing about any caliber under 30 being too small to be considered a serious medium to large game caliber.

 

[Allen Kitts]

I couldn't agree more with the OP. Anyone that pushes, to others, that a 22 anything is the right caliber for hunting big game is just an irresponsible representation of our hunting heritage. If that's what you decide for yourself is right for you then so be it, but don't push it to others, especially those who don't know any better. We have enough problems with anti hunters and legislators that want to take our hunting rights away. We don't need to add any additional fuel to the already raging fire. JMO

 

[waspocrew]

Rifle Calibers are like golf clubs, would you put with a woody or a 5 iron? Nuff said.

I see your point, but Happy Gilmore used a hockey stick to putt and it worked out great.

 

[Al Diamond]

I've killed 95% of the big game with a .270 or 7 Rem mag with a Leupold scope, no can or muzzle brake, and no range finder. I don't fit in with the long range guys , my longest kills are just over 500 yds. I guided deer and elk hunts for over 20 years and it's my opinion that it takes more gun than the 6.5 creed unless in the hands of a marksman. It seems like the least experienced hunters shoot the weak calibers due to recoil and the hunters that carry the bigger ones can shoot them… kinda opposite of how it should be. I've killed 1200 pound beef cattle with a .22 pistol, but I would never say that you should hunt big game with one.

Well said. Life is not a video game like some think. "Real" life comes with consequences and there's no reset button, no do-overs. Being ethical in how you dispatch the intended prey is going the way of the DoDo. Abe Lincoln and Mark Twain were given credit for saying " Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

 

[FireFlyFishing]

He took a plea deal to avoid the Felony, seems to have a real problem when it comes to hunting and staying out of trouble.


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This is what is wrong with hunting today. The book should be thrown at the content creators when they break the law. Perhaps he used all his YouTube money to get him a good lawyer.

 

[DLJ6]

This is not what is wrong with hunting it is what is wrong with our culture. Idiots are given an influential platform and other idiots believe everything they see and hear on the internet. Too many idiots with cameras and microphones.

 

[jessej]

This is not what is wrong with hunting it is what is wrong with our culture. Idiots are given an influential platform and other idiots believe everything they see and hear on the internet. Too many idiots with cameras and microphones.

Ding ding ding.
We have a winner

The lack of critical thinking in society today, is absolutely astounding.