The sense behind Copper Alloy monolithic bullets

No, there's no need since the bullets are not remaining in the carcasses. If a coyote should die of lead poisoning from eating a tainted skunk I can assure you I will not be crying.
It's not the coyote, it's the RedTail, Eagle, Great Horned Owl, Turkey vulture that I care about. They eat a lot more.

Didn't you read that part. I've had them die in my arms. We need the raptors. They eat far more mice, rats voles, squirrels and other problem rodents than coyotes.
 
It's not the coyote, it's the RedTail, Eagle, Great Horned Owl, Turkey vulture that I care about. They eat a lot more.

Didn't you read that part. I've had them die in my arms. We need the raptors. They eat far more mice, rats voles, squirrels and other problem rodents than coyotes.
I don't shoot them with shotguns firing lead shot and I'm not going to hold a funeral for every coyote, bobcat, skunk etc I shoot with a rifle. We'd spend half our time digging holes.

The bullets we use aren't staying in the dead varmints and predators to then be consumed by other varmints, predators, and raptors like shotgun pellets do.
 
I don't shoot them with shotguns firing lead shot and I'm not going to hold a funeral for every coyote, bobcat, skunk etc I shoot with a rifle. We'd spend half our time digging holes.

The bullets we use aren't staying in the dead varmints and predators to then be consumed by other varmints, predators, and raptors like shotgun pellets do.

The part about lead that many seem to miss is that there is no post processing or something done that changes the absorption. It is a heavy elemental metal. On the periodic table. Comes in a couple forms. One is the neutral form but then you have all the ion variables.

I have to agree with Wild Rose. There is a reason the EPA and others banded lead paints. It was killing kids and giving them brain damage. And the fact the people ran around with lead in their mouth or whatever doesn't mean that it's not bad for you. That argument is faulted. Now I think the study design itself to try and show significant differences in consumption based on firearms would be a logistical nightmare. But I think we can extrapolate the data from lead paint and megaloblastic anemia and all the bad things that were found to say, without hesitation, consuming lead in any form is not a good idea.

I don't really think rose started this string to argue that one bullet or design is better than another. But to raise awareness and try and offer education on the matter.

Shoot maybe he ate too much lead as a kid and is a raving lunatic!!!!:D

Whatever it is, the information is reasonable
 
The part about lead that many seem to miss is that there is no post processing or something done that changes the absorption. It is a heavy elemental metal. On the periodic table. Comes in a couple forms. One is the neutral form but then you have all the ion variables.

I have to agree with Wild Rose. There is a reason the EPA and others banded lead paints. It was killing kids and giving them brain damage. And the fact the people ran around with lead in their mouth or whatever doesn't mean that it's not bad for you. That argument is faulted. Now I think the study design itself to try and show significant differences in consumption based on firearms would be a logistical nightmare. But I think we can extrapolate the data from lead paint and megaloblastic anemia and all the bad things that were found to say, without hesitation, consuming lead in any form is not a good idea.

I don't really think rose started this string to argue that one bullet or design is better than another. But to raise awareness and try and offer education on the matter.

Shoot maybe he ate too much lead as a kid and is a raving lunatic!!!!:D

Whatever it is, the information is reasonable
I'd still be a raving lunatic even if I hadn't eaten too much lead as a kid!

This whole thing started because I was watching some gel testing being done in slow motion and saw an obvious spraying of very small lead fragments well outside of the primary wound channel.

I had flat never considered that to be a problem in the past. Yes, like all of us I've picked out larger fragments of lead and copper/allow jackets but some of these were the size of sand grains or a little larger. No matter how careful we are in cleaning our game and doing our best to remove as much of the lead fragments and bullets as possible when processing our game we can get out all of those very small fragments we can't even see.

My preference for bonded bullets is making a lot more sense too!
 
Like with other heavy metals and such, the chemical salts and oxide forms are more readily absorbed into the body than the pure elemental form, but even the pure elemental forms get absorbed. All of the forms are dangerous and present risks; that risk is determined by two things: toxicity and exposure. The more toxic something is or the more exposure there is the higher the risk. One of the main questions to be answered by each person is what they accept as an acceptable level of risk. Personally, I prefer to minimize that risk by using bonded bullets for game, and may switch to copper or alloy in the future, especially when my kids might eat what I shoot. I am also careful with the game I process, and I do it myself.
Heavy metal exposure is cumulative; the body has no real way to eliminate the heavy metals. This means that with continued exposure the level of the heavy metals increases; stopping exposure stops the accumulation. In the wild, heavy metals bio-accumulate naturally through the environment, starting by being absorbed from soil into plants, then accumulating through herbivores, and accumulating at even higher rates in predators and scavengers. Eating lead pellets, either with food, or, in the case of raptors and other birds, with rocks eaten as gizzard stones, just increases the exposure that much. Lead pellets left in the soils become oxidized fairly quickly, with also increases the toxicity. I spent my time in grad school sitting next to a couple guys studying how heavy metals get concentrated in the environment, so we had quite a few discussions about this.
In the end, each person needs to make the decision for themselves. I would rather that the government supported the research to provide people with good information than legislate people's choices.
 
Like with other heavy metals and such, the chemical salts and oxide forms are more readily absorbed into the body than the pure elemental form, but even the pure elemental forms get absorbed. All of the forms are dangerous and present risks; that risk is determined by two things: toxicity and exposure. The more toxic something is or the more exposure there is the higher the risk. One of the main questions to be answered by each person is what they accept as an acceptable level of risk. Personally, I prefer to minimize that risk by using bonded bullets for game, and may switch to copper or alloy in the future, especially when my kids might eat what I shoot. I am also careful with the game I process, and I do it myself.
Heavy metal exposure is cumulative; the body has no real way to eliminate the heavy metals. This means that with continued exposure the level of the heavy metals increases; stopping exposure stops the accumulation. In the wild, heavy metals bio-accumulate naturally through the environment, starting by being absorbed from soil into plants, then accumulating through herbivores, and accumulating at even higher rates in predators and scavengers. Eating lead pellets, either with food, or, in the case of raptors and other birds, with rocks eaten as gizzard stones, just increases the exposure that much. Lead pellets left in the soils become oxidized fairly quickly, with also increases the toxicity. I spent my time in grad school sitting next to a couple guys studying how heavy metals get concentrated in the environment, so we had quite a few discussions about this.
In the end, each person needs to make the decision for themselves. I would rather that the government supported the research to provide people with good information than legislate people's choices.

Agreed
 
I am going to make a guess that if purchasing meat at the grocery store and there was a choice of meats. One contains low levels of lead on one that is lead free. The lead free meat is 25% (or whatever number you want to give it) more expensive. Very few of us would choose the leaded meat.

Maybe I am wrong. I would not choose the meat with lead in it.

Steve
 
I am going to make a guess that if purchasing meat at the grocery store and there was a choice of meats. One contains low levels of lead on one that is lead free. The lead free meat is 25% (or whatever number you want to give it) more expensive. Very few of us would choose the leaded meat.

Maybe I am wrong. I would not choose the meat with lead in it.

Steve
Reminds me of a commercial I've seen recently where at a bar someone is offered water that has "the acceptable amount of lead" according to EPA vs water that was lead free.

Great way to market water filters.
 
Probably the best example of this was the EPA declaring that CO2 is a pollutant.

LOL! This is really bad news for plants....wonder if the EPA has a "non pollutant" alternative in mind for them?
 
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