The sense behind Copper Alloy monolithic bullets

[Wedgy]

Well said Fred.

 

[Techy]

Good topic

I like lead because copper bullets can't match the bc's and I enjoy long range shooting. That and their penciling reputation.

As for poisoning. I can't tell you how many lead singers have been pinched by my teeth and even held in my mouth. Not to mention the mass amounts of game I have consumed killed with shotgun and rifle. This is the case with how many others? Anecdotal? Sure, but something to consider

Also. How soluable is lead? How really absorbed? Not lead compounds, but lead on its own. Something to ponder and research.

I don't know all, but have degrees in biology and chemistry and I have bigger things to worry about.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Techy ,

You are correct. Adult humans do not absorb heavy metals that readily. Juvenile humans are different and much more effected by lead.

I to have my share of teeth pinched lead sinkers. When I was a youth to boot. It didn't kill me. Did it have any effect? We don't know. Does all this "lead free" environmental stuff work. Hard to say.

I hate the "law" we have in California. It's really a government out of control.

However

I love raptors, falcons, hawks, eagles and owls.

It is real that I find these creatures with lead poisoning. Squirrel shooters who use lead and do not pick up the carcasses thinking they are doing the birds a favor. Unfortunately, more than one of these birds has died in my arms from lead poisoning. The raptor digestive system is very different from ours. It absorbs lead easier.

I target shoot with lead jacketed. I hunt or varmint with copper because it is my choice. Not because of the law, because it's my choice. If I were ever lucky enough to have my own land to make my own 1,000 yard range on clean ground, it will all be copper. Shared ranges are fine places for lead.

 

[WildRose]

Techy ,

You are correct. Adult humans do not absorb heavy metals that readily. Juvenile humans are different and much more effected by lead.

I to have my share of teeth pinched lead sinkers. When I was a youth to boot. It didn't kill me. Did it have any effect? We don't know. Does all this "lead free" environmental stuff work. Hard to say.

I hate the "law" we have in California. It's really a government out of control.

However

I love raptors, falcons, hawks, eagles and owls.

It is real that I find these creatures with lead poisoning. Squirrel shooters who use lead and do not pick up the carcasses thinking they are doing the birds a favor. Unfortunately, more than one of these birds has died in my arms from lead poisoning. The raptor digestive system is very different from ours. It absorbs lead easier.

I target shoot with lead jacketed. I hunt or varmint with copper because it is my choice. Not because of the law, because it's my choice. If I were ever lucky enough to have my own land to make my own 1,000 yard range on clean ground, it will all be copper. Shared ranges are fine places for lead.

The problem with heavy metals including lead is that once they have been absorbed it's pretty well there for life and the effects just like the levels of lead absorbed are cumulative throughout our lifetimes.

I posted links above to the research showing the correlations between lead and such things as Alzheimer's.

"I've been doing it for fifty years and it hasn't hurt me yet", only means the levels absorbed so far have not yet reached a level where the symptoms have been diagnosed.

There's also links provided to how folks like us when tested tend to show much higher levels of lead in our systems due to the exposures from such things as those good old split shot sinkers we put on with our teeth and through the game killed with lead that we consume.

Most people won't consume enough lead tainted meat to ever show any real effects but those of us who have spent much of our lives consuming game meats vs store bought fall into a much higher risk category.

Yes, there's no doubt that you simply can't match the BC's of lead core bullets with copper and copper alloy bullets due to the differences in density but you can buy today copper/allow bullets with higher BC's than anything we were shooting 20-30 years ago.

I'm not about to give up using lead core bullets altogether but I'm rapidly approaching a point at which where if I can find copper/allow bullets that will give me acceptable accuracy and terminal performance I am going to start using them more and more in the rifles I shoot game with.

When I'm shooting varmints and predators I could care less.

 

[bigngreen]

We as outdoorsman today are very much likely to show more heavy metal contamination in our system not because of bullets but because of what our game is exposed to in our waters and in our soils, around here you can not hunt anything that has not been feeding on a mining claim and there are many contaminate areas from old smelters and the like. Our bodies just don't absorb lead that is in any kind of form that comes from a bullet, we need it already broke down and absorbed into something eat or drink to really get into our system.
I use both types of bullets for different needs, varmints I could care less about, we are plauged with Golden eagles and there will be piles of the eating ground squirrels that have been shot with high velocity lead and I've never seen a dead eagle let alone ever heard of any kind if concern about it, here they are a flying grizzly bear and are very destructive to some game in the numbers we see.

 

[WildRose]

We as outdoorsman today are very much likely to show more heavy metal contamination in our system not because of bullets but because of what our game is exposed to in our waters and in our soils, around here you can not hunt anything that has not been feeding on a mining claim and there are many contaminate areas from old smelters and the like. Our bodies just don't absorb lead that is in any kind of form that comes from a bullet, we need it already broke down and absorbed into something eat or drink to really get into our system.
I use both types of bullets for different needs, varmints I could care less about, we are plauged with Golden eagles and there will be piles of the eating ground squirrels that have been shot with high velocity lead and I've never seen a dead eagle let alone ever heard of any kind if concern about it, here they are a flying grizzly bear and are very destructive to some game in the numbers we see.

To the bolded, that simply isn't remotely close to true.

 

[bigngreen]

To the bolded, that simply isn't remotely close to true.

Read real lead studies, none come from bullets, it's from sources where the lead is broke down either chemically or in an extremely fine form that can be breathed in fumes or transfered from hands to food. Lead poisoning from lead bullets don't make the list in any lead studies that were not specifically looking to prove lead bullets are bad. We will be contaminated far, far more from environment than lead from a bullet.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The split shot sinker comment reminds me of when I was a kid. I used to carry splitshot in my mouth while fishing because I did not have pockets. I always joke about how smart I would be now if I had not done that.

On the serious side....alzheimers (sp?) is very scary at this time in my life when I am on the back side of the hill. Have seen it up close. If it happens to me I hope some one takes me hunting and there is an accidental discharge. I won't care what kind of bullet.

Steve

 

[bigngreen]

Grew up with split shot sinkers also, always had 22lr bullets I'm my pockets also, remember how shiney the lead would get.

 

[gohring3006]

I always kept a couple pellets in my mouth when I was stalking birds and such...

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...When I'm shooting varmints and predators I could care less.

Just pick them up.

 

[Techy]

The split shot sinker comment reminds me of when I was a kid. I used to carry splitshot in my mouth while fishing because I did not have pockets. I always joke about how smart I would be now if I had not done that.

On the serious side....alzheimers (sp?) is very scary at this time in my life when I am on the back side of the hill. Have seen it up close. If it happens to me I hope some one takes me hunting and there is an accidental discharge. I won't care what kind of bullet.

Steve

obviously not funny, but I could not help but laugh at the last sentence

 

[WildRose]

Read real lead studies, none come from bullets, it's from sources where the lead is broke down either chemically or in an extremely fine form that can be breathed in fumes or transfered from hands to food. Lead poisoning from lead bullets don't make the list in any lead studies that were not specifically looking to prove lead bullets are bad. We will be contaminated far, far more from environment than lead from a bullet.

One of the most famous murders in history was perpetrated on a sitting Pope who was killed by sprinkling lead dust on his sugar which he then consumed. Millions of kids were poisoned by consuming lead paint chips.

Lead was banned from use in bread wrappers because guess what? Yes the lead used in the inks was getting into the bread and consumed.

As for "real studies" you haven't provided links to any whereas I have.

Let's try another, an article from The Scientific American.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wild-game-deer-venison-condors-meat-lead-ammunition-ban/

 

[WildRose]

Just pick them up.

No, there's no need since the bullets are not remaining in the carcasses. If a coyote should die of lead poisoning from eating a tainted skunk I can assure you I will not be crying.