The sense behind Copper Alloy monolithic bullets

[Deleted member 46119]

All one need do reference this post is to FOLLOW THE $$$$$$....and who will benefit!!

Anti "non-profit" owners. They have CDFW wrapped around their little finger.

 

[catamountsierra]

Honestly, potential lead contamination is one reason why I prefer a bonded core or locked core bullet over more frangible bullets like the Bergers. Simply put, greater weight retention should equal less lead contamination just based on conservation of mass. Bullets that don't contain lead get around that rule, but lead isn't the only metal that can be harmful if ingested. The main reason I have stayed away from the lead-free bullets so far has been cost. At the same time, I am anxious to try some 70gr GMX bullets in my AR and see how they work. Regardless of construction, I want a clean kill, but since I hunt for meat rather than antler, I want to avoid, or at least minimize, any lead contamination especially in the meat that I feed to my children.

 

[Snowbird]

i've been interested in ditching the lead for a while but can't decide on a projectile. i do't hunt past 600 much and often end up with shots in the 100 yard range. i shoot a 270 wsm and haven't found a projectile that seems like it wil handle the up close shots as well as the longer ones.

 

[KoolBreeze]

i've been interested in ditching the lead for a while but can't decide on a projectile. i do't hunt past 600 much and often end up with shots in the 100 yard range. i shoot a 270 wsm and haven't found a projectile that seems like it wil handle the up close shots as well as the longer ones.

My understanding is that the mono bullets like the Barnes TSX/TTSX and Hornady GMX are supposed to be great at holding together at close range at magnum velocity, even when hitting bone.

Most problems that I've read about with them have been penciling through when not meeting much resistance like with behind the shoulder shots. And with them not expanding at ranges where the velocity has dropped below 1800 fps.

I'll find out soon, as I just bought a box of the Barnes TTSX 150g for my 300wsm. I'm a shoulder shooter though, so I don't anticipate any problems with expansion.

 

[Csafisher]

Lead is known to the state of CA to cause birth defects. So if you are hunting outside of CA then you are good to go! .

When I shoot an animal with lead bullets, contamination is the last thing on my mind. I wouldn't want to eat a big chunk of lead but I don't think a tiny shaving is gonna hurt. Granted there isn't much data, but I have never heard or known of anyone with lead poisoning. It's just something the EPA or guberment can stick their nose in and regulate more.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

i've been interested in ditching the lead for a while but can't decide on a projectile. i do't hunt past 600 much and often end up with shots in the 100 yard range. i shoot a 270 wsm and haven't found a projectile that seems like it wil handle the up close shots as well as the longer ones.

Did you try the Barnes TTSX 130?

We throw those at ~3350fps in a Weatherby 270. My QB says you can get almost that with the WSM. My WSM is a 300 so I'm educated but not the same.

My buddy has taken feral pigs to 565yards with his TTSX.

I shoot lots of non-lead. Preference and Commifornia.

The key seems to be go fast. Definitely lighter bullet than a lead jacketed. Example a 10 twist 270 might fly a 150 jacketed well but would only fly a 130 non-lead. If you fly that 130 fast so that the energy at the muzzle is the same or more than the jacketed, it should all be good. Can't make the distance a lead jacketed can but not bad.

 

[catamountsierra]

I think one thing that should be pointed out is that lead exposure is a much bigger problem with children and teenagers while their brain is still developing. It doesn't take a lot of lead to cause significant changes in brain development, though still well below the thresholds for what most would consider "lead poisoning". It tends to show up as a decrease in IQ, behavioral or learning problems, or things like that rather than the seizures, paralysis, and such that can occur at really high levels (like eating a bag of lead shot). I think most parents would prefer to avoid potentially handicapping their kids mental potential; though if I'm honest my kids are too smart for my own good.
While I intend to do what I can to minimize my kids lead exposure, I am not likely to be that concerned either. I still hunt with lead core bullets, but prefer bullets that maintain a larger percentage of their initial weight. I am also careful about taking care of the meat as well. I am interested in trying the lead-free bullets, but will probably start with TSX or GMX bullets in my .223s for small deer before I try them in my 7mm-08. Right now I use the 140gr AB in that, but am trying to work up loads with 150gr ABLRs and 162gr ELD-Xs to see how they might do.
The effects of lead, especially on the developing brain, is often subtle, but still damaging.

 

[WildRose]

My understanding is that the mono bullets like the Barnes TSX/TTSX and Hornady GMX are supposed to be great at holding together at close range at magnum velocity, even when hitting bone.

Most problems that I've read about with them have been penciling through when not meeting much resistance like with behind the shoulder shots. And with them not expanding at ranges where the velocity has dropped below 1800 fps.

I'll find out soon, as I just bought a box of the Barnes TTSX 150g for my 300wsm. I'm a shoulder shooter though, so I don't anticipate any problems with expansion.

As I understand it the TSX and TTSX are designed to shed their petals on impact. I have shot a few of them in the AR's shooting Barnes Vor-X Ammo and really liked how they performed on small pigs (under 200lbs) but that's the extent of my experience with them.

I have shot the Hornady GMX is both .375 Ruger and come to think of it the .300wm as well. At least on shots of 300yds and less I found the accuracy to be very good and while I got good pass through shots with exits in the neighborhood of a golfball which is exactly what I prefer I saw no penciling or massive exits with a great deal of wasted meat. I have yet to shoot any of them at long range.

With lead core bullets I have always preferred the bonded bullets because of their terminal performance.

After seeing the lead spray in the videos from some non bonded bullets I'm less inclined than ever before to shoot any kind of lead core bullet at anything I'm planning to eat unless it is a bonded bullet.

Years ago one of the reasons I quit shooting Nosler BT's was because of how bad they broke up and looking back I can remember seeing small fragments that had made it through the rib cage into the meat opposite the entry side but I never gave any consideration to the fact we were going to end up eating those small fragments.

With all the lead shot pheasant, quail, and ducks we ate growing up I have little doubt that we consumed far in excess of any levels of lead that might be considered harmless today but there simply wasn't enough data available when I was young for us to think we were doing any harm.

There's no lack of information available today, we know that it can cause serious neruological development issues in kids. The amount required to cause actual lead poisoning requiring treatment in adults is much higher but I think there's still a general line of thinkink that exposure to various heavy metals is at least a contributing factor in Alzheimer's, Dementia, and Parkinson's Disease.

There is a great body of good research showing that this is well worth considering.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gra...=health+risks+from+eating+meat+shot+with+lead

Unfortunately so much "science" today is agenda driven so it's hard to really know what studies can be trusted and which can't. Personally I'm always inclined to be skeptical of any research put out in support of lead bans and by anti hunting groups but it's wilful ignorance to ignore it all and to discount what is known about lead toxicity.

 

[snox801]

Being that I live in Michigan and have been blasted about the lead in water of flint I have learned a few things. First lead is very very hard for your body to absorb through eating. That may be why we never see affects. It usually things change a bit when inhaled or chemicals are introduced like in water. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was such a low amount that can get absorbed by eating it would never matter.
As for flint you should see a town run for the last 36 years by dems try and pin it on a fairly n w rep gov. It's laughable they were going broke from over spending and decided to save money by not getting water from Detroit only to start having lead issues from the new treatment.

 

[Wedgy]

I've been shooting copper for a while as I'm in CA and a few of the shortcomings are expansion(tends to pencil thru heart/lungs as it's harder than lead and I don't shoot shoulders), lower BC"s, higher cost, availability(getting better), can't just switch back from copper to lead for hunting and target despite what people think(it's way more complicated as we know). The other day at Walmart there were ~200 types of ammo in the case but only 2 were copper. If you don't hand load you will have a hard time finding ammo. As if it couldn't get worse CA is banning internet sales of ammo, which is most peoples source for non lead.
I now have to use non lead for chukar hunting but have a couple more years to use lead for quail and dove. I will be selling some of my .410's and 28 gauge guns as shooting steel out of those is ridiculous.
Also, those that do load development won't be able to ship ammo here.
Pretty soon they will ban lead weights for fishing, currently it is being "studied".
We are being protected to death.

In short, I don't mind shooting copper bullets but it suffers a bit ballistically, but steel for upland game is another story unless you plan on shooting a 12 gauge cannon.

 

[KoolBreeze]

Dang Wedgy, sure glad I don't live in CA. Unfortunately what CA does everyone else eventually does, so it seems.

 

[kyron]

Wedgy,

There is a simple solution to all the problems you just mentioned. Move out of California. The more people that just stay and put up with that crap the more they see the ability to take it to the next level.

 

[Wedgy]

Kyron, I would move but I have a mom that's getting old, a friend hit by a drunk driver in a coma/TBI that I maintain his house for his wife, and his contractor duties at his rescue. The good news is my house is paid off and worth a stupid amount of money so when I do decide to split I will be ok. I can get along with the copper bullets but the non lead shot will be tough. For now I have to stick it out.
As far as lead goes, yes it is bad for kids. I used to work in groundwater, hazmat, and industrial hygiene and all the data backs up the claims.
I have a couple calibers I'm working with the Hammer bullets but didn't have time before hunting season to get them dialed in, they are softer than the Barnes and I think will expand better.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Wedgy,

There is a simple solution to all the problems you just mentioned. Move out of California. The more people that just stay and put up with that crap the more they see the ability to take it to the next level.

I wish it were that easy.