Spreadsheet to determine best long range hunting cartridge

[packgoatguy]

I get that, and it may be what I'm pointing out. If you don't add in essentials like barrel length's effect on velocity then you're altering the inputs by omission.

The advantage the 280AI, has over the 28 Nosler is with the 280AI being better suited for a featherweight type of rifle.

My assumption regarding barrel length, is simply that ALL cartridges will benefit from additional barrel length, and all will suffer from less barrel length, so to pick a different barrel length for the comparison would require the same rifle platform shooting 15 different cartridges. When cartridge manufactures test their cartridges, they pick a "standard" barrel length (in this case, 24 inches) that they will use to test all of their cartridges against, to keep all things equal. It would not be fair to the analysis to put a 28 inch 280AI barrel against a 24 inch 28Nosler, and visa versa. Both cartridges can benefit from the increased barrel length, and probably in fairly equal degree, so to show velocities at all barrel lengths, when trying to compare cartridges side by side does little but add additional data points. However, if someone can point me to verifiable data that would suggest some of the included cartridges in this comparison are susceptible to a greater velocity increase than other cartridges (in some significant degree), then that would be very interesting for this analysis.

Your assessment about the ability to make a lighter weight rifle with the 280AI vs a larger 7mm is significant, and probably one of the most important, all else being equal IMO. However, it would be interesting to quantify it. For example... take the Kimber Mountain Ascent... I believe it is still the "lightest" factory rifle made: in the 6.5CM, 7mm08, and 308 the rifle weighs in at around 4lbs 13 ounces. For the 300WSM it weighs 5lbs 12 ounces. For the 280AI, it weighs 5lbs 10oz. For the 300WM/7mmWM it weighs 6lbs 7oz. That is all a pretty big spread. But, where the above spreadsheet shows the 280AI outperforming both the 300wm and 7mmWM in its down range ballistics, plus having a 13 ounce weight savings... that does suggest the 280AI is a viable alternative to those two calibers if weight is of a primary concern. It is to some folks, not as much to others.

 

[packgoatguy]

agreed that's I why my son and I chos 3 00 RUM mags be say .7.63 (win.308 ) and the likes available I tried removing as much variables as possible?So where is my error I what I said a out variances in velocity?

No error suggested sir. My apologies if I suggested otherwise. Based on the graph though, what has you choosing the 300RUM over the 338RUM, or 338LM, or some of the bigger 7mm options? What criteria do you find most important in your decision to go with 300RUM instead of other cartridge options? oomph on target? (certainly the 30 cal bullet will have more energy and knockdown power at the target than a .284 cal bullet... but then again, how much "oomph" is enough? dead is still dead...) Availability of ammo at a local sporting goods store in a pinch? ease of reloading? ammo cost? recoil? what factors did you weigh when deciding 300RUM was your caliber, and how did those factors weigh against the alternative calibers you had to choose from?

 

[Newbweatherby]

Yes I owned a .300 weatherby in a Remington,it was a pain to find ammo,so I started loading,which was a really touchy with the radiused shoulder .A bigger pain to get to shoot well but once dialed it was accurate,my youngest son bought a Winchester stainless model 70 in .300 rum and everything we loaded shot sub .75" at worst and Maoist groups under .50 @100 yards,so I ditched my 30 year old Remington and for fathers day my 3 sons pitched in got me Remington .700 stainless sps ,I mounted a muzzle brake so recoil is not a factor.Ive one. 243 and.270 (now over 37 years) and a 7mm Rem mag.
So now the reason is to learn long range precision shooting,and God willing I've dreamed to hunt elk as a teenager,now with accumulative issues from having type 1 diabetes over 47 years and knee replacements I will be applying for a elk tag this year as o may never be able to make it if I wait much longer.So I wanted a cartridge that with the right bullet be able to drop a horse sized elk.That and as my hikes are getting shorter and shorter every year ,and not physically able to walk as far and get as close s I used to and my shots have become longer,I want the round to have enough ke when it reaches the target ,to humanely drop and deer,my last shot was out over 468 yards,Of course bullet placement and the right bullet being priority .

 

[packgoatguy]

Yes I owned a .300 weatherby in a Remington,it was a pain to find ammo,so I started loading,which was a really touchy with the radiused shoulder .A bigger pain to get to shoot well but once dialed it was accurate,my youngest son bought a Winchester stainless model 70 in .300 rum and everything we loaded shot sub .75" at worst and Maoist groups under .50 @100 yards,so I ditched my 30 year old Remington and for fathers day my 3 sons pitched in got me Remington .700 stainless sps ,I mounted a muzzle brake so recoil is not a factor.Ive one. 243 and.270 (now over 37 years) and a 7mm Rem mag.
So now the reason is to learn long range precision shooting,and God willing I've dreamed to hunt elk as a teenager,now with accumulative issues from having type 1 diabetes over 47 years and knee replacements I will be applying for a elk tag this year as o may never be able to make it if I wait much longer.So I wanted a cartridge that with the right bullet be able to drop a horse sized elk.That and as my bikes are getting shorter and shorter every year ,and not physically able to walk as far and get as close s I used to and my shots have become longer,I want the round to have enough ke when it reaches the target ,to humanely drop and deer,my last shot was out over 468 yards,Of course bullet placement and the right bullet being priority .

Well, the 300RUM certainly gets the job done IMO. Especially at the yardages you are talking about (a 220gr bullet vs the 175g 7mm will have nearly twice the "wallop" or oomph once it reaches the target... I think the 7mm should still have enough "wallop" to get the job done mind you.. but still, twice the "wallop" is sayin something for a bit more margin of error). My 14 year old took his first cow elk this year with my 300WM at 320 yards, one shot, she never took a step. The 200gr ELDX turned her lungs to soup. If you are looking for great elk hunting opportunities this year, and could make it to Idaho, shoot me a PM. I would be happy to steer you towards some great OTC hunting options in the event you don't draw per your plan.

 

[68formalGT]

I see the 6.5 CM listed but not the 26 Nosler, just wondering where the factory Nosler 142 ABLR with their velocitys, or proven if different, come in on your list? Also wondering what thoughts and guesses would be on the unreleased 155gr Burger 6.5 will end up on the list in 26 Nosler.

 

[packgoatguy]

I see the 6.5 CM listed but not the 26 Nosler, just wondering where the factory Nosler 142 ABLR with their velocitys, or proven if different, come in on your list? Also wondering what thoughts and guesses would be on the unreleased 155gr Burger 6.5 will end up on the list in 26 Nosler.

26 Nosler added.
It does reach out there, as far as keeping its velocity above 1600fps beyond the 1500 yard mark... however, the energy and KPS score at those ranges are considerably lower than you would get out of a high BC .284, .308, or .338 bullet.

 

[Newbweatherby]

Well, the 300RUM certainly gets the job done IMO. Especially at the yardages you are talking about (a 220gr bullet vs the 175g 7mm will have nearly twice the "wallop" or oomph once it reaches the target... I think the 7mm should still have enough "wallop" to get the job done mind you.. but still, twice the "wallop" is sayin something for a bit more margin of error). My 14 year old took his first cow elk this year with my 300WM at 320 yards, one shot, she never took a step. The 200gr ELDX turned her lungs to soup. If you are looking for great elk hunting opportunities this year, and could make it to Idaho, shoot me a PM. I would be happy to steer you towards some great OTC hunting options in the event you don't draw per your plan.

Thank you I will keep it in mind,its have to be on my state for financial reasons ,We didn't have a Christmas this year but we decided to have a family hunt instead in November where we were drawn and enjoyed the outdoors a lot more as family than a tree and presents .I like the 7mm Remington I had for years in a howa 1500 which at the time was the Smith and wesson 1500

 

[68formalGT]

26 Nosler added.
It does reach out there, as far as keeping its velocity above 1600fps beyond the 1500 yard mark... however, the energy and KPS score at those ranges are considerably lower than you would get out of a high BC .284, .308, or .338 bullet.

Thank you. Should be a few new bullets to add soon the Berger 155g 6.5 and the 195g 7mm hunting bullets, maybe after some loads are worked up and BC's proven.

 

[Sam Aspacher]

Thanks for putting the data together. What does KPS score stand for??

 

[packgoatguy]

Thanks for putting the data together. What does KPS score stand for??

KPS = Killing Power Score. It is the KE Energy multiplied by the Sectional Density of the bullet multiplied by the frontal cross sectional area of the bullet. As Energy already considers the weight of the bullet and the velocity of the bullet, it pretty much takes into account as many variables as possible to then give a score or a ranking that shows the relative "oomph" that a given bullet would have at a given velocity. I believe I read somewhere that a score of a "12.5" would be the minimum for class 2/deer sized game.

 

[Mark Williams]

Where's the 175gr Eldx in the .284 calibers????? Wouldn't the numbers surpass the 162gr Eldx??? Hmmmm??

 

[packgoatguy]

Where's the 175gr Eldx in the .284 calibers????? Wouldn't the numbers surpass the 162gr Eldx??? Hmmmm??

Because they don't have a factory loaded option on Hornady's website in the 175gr. Unless I missed it. If someone velocity data out of a 24 inch barrel, I could add it.

 

[Greyfox]

KPS = Killing Power Score. It is the KE Energy multiplied by the Sectional Density of the bullet multiplied by the frontal cross sectional area of the bullet. As Energy already considers the weight of the bullet and the velocity of the bullet, it pretty much takes into account as many variables as possible to then give a score or a ranking that shows the relative "oomph" that a given bullet would have at a given velocity. I believe I read somewhere that a score of a "12.5" would be the minimum for class 2/deer sized game.

This formula is based on John Taylor's Knock Out Values that were developed to correlate to a cartridges ability to knock out an elephant with a head/brain shot at close range(approx 10-20 yards) with a "solid" bullet. This method, much like using just energy/velocity is good for general comparisons, but does no take into account the bullets expansion characteristics, an important consideration particularly with the 30 cal and under cartridges when used on thin skinned game(deer, elk, etc). A 450 Nitro Express capable of knocking an elephant out with a solid, could easily get the hunter killed if the same cartridge/bullet instead of an expanding soft point was used on a 500 pound lion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_KO_Factor

 

[HunterShooter]

Is there enough info around to add the 300 PRC to the list?