Nosler Brass Quality-280 AI

[cabelasken]

My 280 AI is getting 3125 with Barnes 145 LRX, 3200 with Hammer hunter 143. I just got some 130 Absolute Hammers and will try them out next week. This is with Reloader 19. The brass I've been using is fireformed 280 Remington Brass headstamped RP - so not the best. My barrel is 24". I would like better brass, but availability and cost is not good right now.

 

[Longrangers]

Because they have a lot of time on their hands. They want to be in a fireforming state. It's more likely that it's what, they can get there hands onto, at the time. I place and order for 500, 280AI cases in Peterson Brass. Lapua don't build them. It almost took a year to get that brass. Lapua, Peterson and others don't build all the types of brass for all the different cases out there either. Powder and Primers are kind of coming back, but theirs a lot of types of powder/primers that hasn't or very limited on supply. Where is all that going too. I haven't seen H1000 or Varget on the market in months, nor Match Large Rifle Primers either. I know and I surf the net every day, and generally twice a day. I put in on wish lists too. Have to be quick and be lucky at the same time. Primers are, if in, 3 times higher than should be. They got us over barrel, and sticking it to us. it does appears that the manufactures are getting ahead of factory ammo. Prices are coming down, but slowly. I really feel that the manufactures of ammo are in the first place for components, and the reload is in **** place. It's probable not totally why they charge so much for components, but the lack of them, they don't have anything to turn off. the name of the game is turn over.

I have been finding varget and H1000 regular. I know 2 different gun shops with it on the shelves.

 

[dogz]

Ok--let's start at the start and what speeds are your handloads going?

Keep in mind that pressure equals speed and speed equals pressure....period

Lastly, there are a ton load of people out there in pressure denial...meaning lots say that they're not seeing pressure but real world it's there (I'd bet)

I've said this before, I can't wait for the day when we have pressure gauges available to us that are accurate, easy to use and affordable (say less than 1K)

 

[dogz]

lastly, I've observed that the 280 AI is one of those rounds that people love to pound on in an effort to get to this or that speed............

I've not been around many of them lately, but for a while there I had some exposure to them and pretty much each one lost accuracy when pushed to top end. Back it down 100 fps or so and viola they'd perk pretty well. (side note, most of these were Kimbers)

 

[Mike Matteson]

The woes of 280ai owners is real. I was able to pick up 100 Peterson brass from a LRH member. Still looking for another 100. I saw some the other day, but at $250 for 100 I had to pass. It is a new chambering for me. I love the efficiency of the cartridge, but not the scarcity of components.

Graf & Son they are about $1.50 each for Peterson, but they don't have any. Nosler is $2.00 each and they have some. Peterson were a $1.00 each. I have almost 500 280AI brass presently in Peterson Brass, but I won't turn loose with any of them. $2.50 each is bullS**T.

 

[dougduey]

Nosler brass is good, but Petersen brass is better. A few of us have found that Petersen brass will yield about 50-100 fps over other brass brands. I'm really impressed with Petersen brass. It's thicker than Nosler brass.
I'm on my second barrel for my 280 AI. For some reason, neither the old or new barrel was a fan of the 140 Absolutes (and I really tried to make my rifle like them). Now I'm running the 120 Hammer Hunters at 3541 fps. I have a higher node 100 fps faster, but it wasn't as accurate.
The Absolute line of bullets seem to pressure spike. It sneaks up on you fast, so be careful. A lot of us learned this out the hard way when we started loading those bullets when they first came out.

 

[Mike Matteson]

That could be because of more brass in the case. Ever volume weight any of them. Myself, I haven't had a chance yet to do that. I was in the process of relocating back to Mexico-North. All or Most of my reloading gear is in Montana presently. Hunting season is coming up too. It's been my understanding there less volume in the cases. The other is I don't have anything to base from either. So it wouldn't do me much good to see what is what. So either you get more velocity, and possible pressure signs. I have seen that written here several times. I will volume weight some Peterson cases to see if there is and how much varies there is. I do know that Peterson COAL varied about .0065th between Longest and shortest case length. So I cut all my cases to start with 2.5185 in length.

 

[AZ82New]

My 280 AI is getting 3125 with Barnes 145 LRX, 3200 with Hammer hunter 143. I just got some 130 Absolute Hammers and will try them out next week. This is with Reloader 19. The brass I've been using is fireformed 280 Remington Brass headstamped RP - so not the best. My barrel is 24". I would like better brass, but availability and cost is not good right now.

I was getting a little faster velocity with Hunter when I was shooting the LRX and had a 24 inch tube.

I just got the 130 absolutes……I would try H4350 if you have it. That was doing really well with the 119 absolute. Staball 6.5 seemed a little faster than Hybrid 100v…..which is sort of the go to for absolutes.

 

[AZ82New]

Ironically, this barrel is really fast with lead core bullets. I'm 2.5 grains higher of H1000 than Nosler reloading manual with a 175 woodleigh protected point. Sitting right at 2,900 fps out of a 22 inch barrel. Only the faintest of extractor marks. Cases aren't measuring any expansion at all. I got clear up to 2,982 fps with reloader 26 but the case expanded a thousandth and their was a bright extractor mark. Too hot.

That was in 103 degree weather.

2,900, maybe a little more is definitely reliable.

So what I think is that the bore is on the tighter side of being in tolerance so the monos are out. Finding a good lead core bullet is **** tough right now so I'm pretty well stumped.

 

[sable tireur]

I just built a 280 ai with the goal of shooting the 140 Absolute Hammer.

Pertinent Specs:
22" Bartlein 3b
Ruger m77mk2

I started pressure testing based on info from the hammer guys plus their load compilation.

I have tried two primers: fed 210 and 215 GMM.

I'm pressuring out much much faster than what multiple people on the compiled reloading data sheet are. Regardless of the primer.

One guy with a 22" inch proof, using Nosler brass, similar COAL and Staball 6.5 never reported pressure all the way up to 64 grains. I blew a primer at 62 grains. My velocity's were within 25 fps of what he was reporting.

Same story with h100v from several other compilers. I'm tapping out two grains short of where they are, with similar velocities up to that point.

I don't think it's a slow barrel or a break in issue. Otherwise my velocities would be slower with the lower charge weights.

My theory is that maybe the recent lots of nosler brass are softer. Maybe a cost savings measure do to the recent supply chain constraints?

Does anyone else have a similar experience recently?

Is there something I'm missing?

These are the SAAMI spec drawings for both the chamber and the cartridge case:

In reality, we (several gunsmiths) ran into this type of problem when Nosler originally released the .280 AI after SAAMI approval. Lots of orders for this chamber. After the public had the opportunity to shoot this cartridge, demand for this chamber fell off to nearly nothing.

Reamers were ordered for the SAAMI chamber and brass was purchased from Nosler. We also fireformed .280 Rem. brass when we found that the factory (N) was a little less stout than it should have been. Worse is that Nosler bought Silver State Armory, a manufacturer of lesser quality brass cases.

Ackley type cases are well known for working up loads easily until it suddenly peaks, usually with a failure, stuck case or primer difficulties.

There are several reasons for what you're seeing although I'm not convinced you really have a problem showing only 25fps less. This is why we get 8-10 pages of answers while members try to do a remote diagnosis without actually seeing and measuring the chamber, barrel and cases.

Slightly tight barrel bore/groove relationship. It doesn't take much...
Copper/powder fouling.
Deviations in chambers, yes even SAAMI reamers come from the makers with variations.
Chamber may be slightly out of round.
Chamber might be slightly oversize.
Freebore and throat variations.
Variations in powder lots (performance).
Brass not trimmed to match the chamber dimension. (jamming transition angle)
And the list goes on...

I switched to the .284 Win. (Shehane is a very slightly improved version) This has a little less case capacity but comes from the factory with a 35 degree shoulder instead of 40 degrees. Loaded with longer but slightly lighter 150 gr. Badlands bullets, I'm in the MX or intermediate length actions without cobbling on my actions for aftermarket boxes and followers or needing a LA.

But, with the advent of much better brass from other manufacturers, the .280AI is seeing a slight revival.

Enjoy!

 

[Mike Matteson]

These are the SAAMI spec drawings for both the chamber and the cartridge case:

View attachment 385774

View attachment 385775

In reality, we (several gunsmiths) ran into this type of problem when Nosler originally released the .280 AI after SAAMI approval. Lots of orders for this chamber. After the public had the opportunity to shoot this cartridge, demand for this chamber fell off to nearly nothing.

Reamers were ordered for the SAAMI chamber and brass was purchased from Nosler. We also fireformed .280 Rem. brass when we found that the factory (N) was a little less stout than it should have been. Worse is that Nosler bought Silver State Armory, a manufacturer of lesser quality brass cases.

Ackley type cases are well known for working up loads easily until it suddenly peaks, usually with a failure, stuck case or primer difficulties.

There are several reasons for what you're seeing although I'm not convinced you really have a problem showing only 25fps less. This is why we get 8-10 pages of answers while members try to do a remote diagnosis without actually seeing and measuring the chamber, barrel and cases.

Slightly tight barrel bore/groove relationship. It doesn't take much...
Copper/powder fouling.
Deviations in chambers, yes even SAAMI reamers come from the makers with variations.
Chamber may be slightly out of round.
Chamber might be slightly oversize.
Freebore and throat variations.
Variations in powder lots (performance).
Brass not trimmed to match the chamber dimension. (jamming transition angle)
And the list goes on...

I switched to the .284 Win. (Shehane is a very slightly improved version) This has a little less case capacity but comes from the factory with a 35 degree shoulder instead of 40 degrees. Loaded with longer but slightly lighter 150 gr. Badlands bullets, I'm in the MX or intermediate length actions without cobbling on my actions for aftermarket boxes and followers or needing a LA.

But, with the advent of much better brass from other manufacturers, the .280AI is seeing a slight revival.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the input. Got it printed and I will have it scanned and stored. I had a 6mm/280AI rifle just built. I took a Sierra detail on use it for the reamer set up. With the PDF set up I have I can go in and modify the details on the print. To my shoulder length is 2.0966. The reason I went to the 280AI case was because of more length to the shoulder than 06 cases. This is the first time thru on having a reamer built, but I will do it again on any rifle I have built. The reamer come out long and can be change some what if needed.