Need some guidance..

[Bigaldepr]

I recommend you look at the Christensen Mesa Long Range. You could buy the Tikka, change the stock, replace the barrel and add a brake but you are going to spend a lot of time and money modifying it. The Mesa LR has the 26" SS cerakote finish medium Palma barrel with break, fluted bolt, free floated synthetic pillared stock, and based on a Remington 700 which gives you lots of add-on choices. Mine is 7mm RM, my preference, but it is also available in 300 WM, the best two calibers for Elk IMO as well as many folks here. My varmint rifle is Tikka T3 in 22-250 with a B&C stock and Timney trigger so there is no bias here.

 

[donwill]

go with the 300win mag if going with a custom barrel use 1:8 twist that way you will have long range and can use the 200+ bullets. with confidence they will do the job for you 26" is good. I have a tikka 300 win mag 28" barrel SS 1:8 twist and use eldx 200 grain for long distance 3-4" group at 1000 yards. is excellent for big game Elk Moose Bear and stops the in their tracks.

 

[greenejc]

I will be moving to Utah from Oklahoma in March. I definitely will be getting into Elk hunting and I was told to go with a 6.5 Creedmore. My main goal is primarily to hunt Elk and do some long range shooting at a range with yardage up to 2,000yds. I was also contemplating building a 300WM and putting a good muzzle brake on it to help with recoil. With me being new to Elk hunting I told the gentleman I don't plan on shooting past 400-500yds. I'm just concerned with penetration with the 6.5 Creedmore on a large animal. Also, what would you guy's recommend for a good muzzle brake? Thanks for any input gentlemen.

If you will read some of the statements in a few of the forums here, you will read about lost elk using the 6.5 Creedmoor. I will refer you to 'Ballistics Studies' which is a website out of New Zealand that a ballistician and hunter runs. He has done extensive wound analysis and impact studies on animals he and those he has guided have killed with various combinations of bullets in calibers ranging from .224 up to .475. Read his material on bullet diameter and weight.
I would not hunt elk with a 6.5 caliber anything. The bullet doesn't have enough mass to penetrate heavy bone at any distance past (maybe) 200 yards. I live in Colorado and go out every year for elk. I use a .35 Whelen and a 225 grain Sierra or a 250 grain Speer. My backup rifles are a .300 winmag or a 30-06. The lightest bullet I load in them for elk is a 180 grain Sierra Pro-hunter. At 400-500 yards, a 140 grain 6.5 Creedmoor round has a velocity (at 7,000 ft.) of about 2100fps. It has about 1,350 Ftlbs of energy. You've just shot a 600 lb animal with the equivalent of a .223 at around 50 yards. With a 300 winmag using a 180 grain Sierra GK bullet, my MV is about 2450fps at 400 yards with a starting MV of 3,000fps. The energy is apout 2450 foot-pounds. (.308 Win. at about 50 yards) The bullet mass is about 20% greater, and it makes a considerably greater entrance and exit wound. With the Whelen and a 225 grain bullet at around 2725fps starting velocity, I have about the same velocity at 400 yards but my entrance and exit wounds are much larger, and because of the bullet mass, it penetrates heavy bone and doesn't deflect.
Elk are pretty tough. Go with a round that will penetrate and exit at 400 to 500 yards and give you a good exit wound. The larger the better, because you may have to blood-trail him. Also, a large sucking chest wound will put him down much quicker than a small one. A 6.5 Creedmoor is accurate, moderately flat-shooting and easier to hit with. It can kill an elk, but so can a .22, and if you hit an elk with it properly, it will work. However, the elk may be in the next county when it dies, and you won't have much of a blood trail to follow if you have to trail it. A .300 or a 30-06 makes a nice large exit wound and leaves a good blood trail. My Whelen makes a very large blood trail, and an enormous sucking chest wound at 500 yards. Pick a round that will do the job if the shot isn't perfect at 400 yards (which it probably won't be). Go with the 30-06 or the .300 winchester magnum. (or the Whelen, which when handloaded just about equals the .338 Winmag.)

 

[Browninglover1]

Don't believe the full story you heard on that 1550 yard elk with the Creedmoor.

Did he hit it with his Creed? Yes.
Did that elk die because of the Creedmoor? No

 

[Mark Williams]

6.5 does not have the energy to be a good Elk cartridge. IMO its barely a deer cartridge. I own 2 of them. I have seen 140 gr berger blow up on the shoulder of a buck and not penetrate into either lung.
I know elk have been killed with it and the right bullet. Would never recommend an angling shot or a shoulder shot with it.
For Elk its name should be changed to the 6.5 NEEDMOOR!

 

[greenejc]

I grew up in Utah (hunted mule deer for about 10 years) and have lived in Oregon for the last 30 years. In Utah, you will likely hunt mule deer much more often than elk, unless you contract with an elk guide each year. While in Utah, I used a 30-06 with factory ammo (that was before I started reloading). In Oregon I have used both a 300 WM and a 270 Win to kill elk (3 with the 270 and 3 with the 300WM). Of the 6 elk, all were within 450 yards and within that range the 270 using 130 gr Nosler Ballistic tips at 3050 fps did equal damage to the 300 WM using 185 gr Berger classic hunters at 2750 fps. Notice that the 300 WM load is not a hot load and is essentially the same as a 30-06 load. In working up a load, I found a node that gave single hole 4 shot groups at 100 yards. But it is at 72.5 gr of H4831. You could get the same performance with a 30-06 using a lot less powder (i.e, 57.5 gr of H4350 would give closer to 2800 fps). Since I am not a "long range hunter" I developed a "range chart" and validated out to 600 yards. I won't shoot at game beyond 500, even though the load is capable of going further. So what I am hinting at here is the following. The 300 WM is a fine caliber and you can't go wrong with it in terms of performance on game. But rather than getting a 300 WM with a muzzle break, you could do everything you are planning to do with a 30-06. The recoil will be low enough that you don't need a muzzle break (which will kill your ears if you use it in the field without ear protection). The 30-06 is quite versatile for anything you might ever hunt in Utah. Just my 2 cents.

Oh, I agree. I use a 30-06 as much as anything. But I use the Whelen when I want it DRT because of the fist-sized exit wound out to about 400 yards with the Sierra Gameking in 225 grain. The impact on a large Mule Deer at 400 yards will spin him off his front feet. But a 30-06 at 400 or 500 yards will kill elk just fine.

 

[greenejc]

Don't believe the full story you heard on that 1550 yard elk with the Creedmoor.

Did he hit it with his Creed? Yes.
Did that elk die because of the Creedmoor? No

Yep. That was about like shooting the elk with a .22 short. It probably didn't do much past ****ing him off.

 

[The Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

Trigger time and I mean LOTS of trigger time and truthfully it doesn't need to all be with the selected elk hunting rifle.

I am on my 4th 300Win Mag as I recall, a couple were questionable at best due to quality issues and a couple, one of which I passed on to a son, were great. My current 300 is a RUGER Hawkeye which is a VERY accurate rifle and one that also produces higher then expected velocities.

I spend a lot of time at the bench developing loads for one rifle or another, with the goal of developing an "optimum" load - one load/one bullet - for each hunting rifle, and knowing that some folk will not agree, I think that great amounts of trigger time on the bench and off go to improving your shooting abilities.

Probably 40years back, I allowed a post 64 Winchester 300 to hurt me during rushed load development and I was just never at home with that rifle again. It was also one of the defective 300s I have owned, the other a Browning "A" bolt that while the smoothest actioned rifle I've ever owned had a barrel that looked like it had had a threading tap run down the length of it.

Anyway, after that damaging experience with that first 300 I just made it a point to not allow a rifle to hurt me or at least not enough to develop bad shooting habits.

As said, I spend a lot of time on the bench and for many years have used a sand bag or sissy bag between the butt of the rifle and my shoulder when shooting much of anything above a .243. This includes MUCH load testing/development time with a 45/70 and heavy cast bullets.

Forget that terrible idea of a muzzle break! If your so much in a rush to get off a second shot, it is highly likely you rushed the first shot. DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT suggesting that you use a bullet of 165gr in a 300 as I think a 180 or 200gr is a much better choice, but after the Browning experience and trying a bunch of different bullet/powder combinations in an attempt to get consistency and good groups, - I never did - I had a bunch of 165gr Nosler Partitions on hand and have gone on to use that bullet, with success.

The 200gr Nosler Partition was the bullet of choice in the RUGER #1 - 300 that I passed on to a son.

I WOULD NOT feel ok with that 165gr choice were it not for the fact that the Partition is high in integrity, the point being that what ever bullet you select, make it a good one with proven integrity. The cost of the best bullets available is very small when compared to the other costs of rifle, scope, hunting an camping equipment and the expense of just getting to your hunting location.

Your possible suggestion of buying a new rifle and having it barreled is off the wall. Just buy a good rifle and forget all the other misdirected thoughts your friends have fed you.

My RUGER Hawkeye is giving me sub inch groups at a muzzle velocity of 3318fps with the 165gr Nosler and I'd expect it to also give excellent accuracy with a more proper 180 or 200gr bullet.

Trigger time even with a .22 rimfire, you need lots of it!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

[Swatman05]

I recommend you look at the Christensen Mesa Long Range. You could buy the Tikka, change the stock, replace the barrel and add a brake but you are going to spend a lot of time and money modifying it. The Mesa LR has the 26" SS cerakote finish medium Palma barrel with break, fluted bolt, free floated synthetic pillared stock, and based on a Remington 700 which gives you lots of add-on choices. Mine is 7mm RM, my preference, but it is also available in 300 WM, the best two calibers for Elk IMO as well as many folks here. My varmint rifle is Tikka T3 in 22-250 with a B&C stock and Timney trigger so there is no bias here.

I've actually looked at that.. I heard they had quality control issues in the past..

 

[4 coyotes]

I'm curious about the scope that was used at 1550 yards. I have a Vortex Gen II. spoting your target at almost 1 mile is tough. Picking out a good shoulder shot...

 

[youngtrout]

My disclaimer is the read the first two pages and the last one....

But look at the 300WSM to. I'd still build it off a long action, so you can optimize bullet seating.

I shoot the WSM with he 200gr ELD-X. It's accounted for a lot of animals, my main go-to for hunting. Easy to reload for, still factory ammo. I feel it's a bit more inherently accurate case deign than the WM. I like loosing the belt for reloading.

I started with the WM, but made the WSM change a few years ago.

 

[Swatman05]

Trigger time and I mean LOTS of trigger time and truthfully it doesn't need to all be with the selected elk hunting rifle.

I am on my 4th 300Win Mag as I recall, a couple were questionable at best due to quality issues and a couple, one of which I passed on to a son, were great. My current 300 is a RUGER Hawkeye which is a VERY accurate rifle and one that also produces higher then expected velocities.

I spend a lot of time at the bench developing loads for one rifle or another, with the goal of developing an "optimum" load - one load/one bullet - for each hunting rifle, and knowing that some folk will not agree, I think that great amounts of trigger time on the bench and off go to improving your shooting abilities.

Probably 40years back, I allowed a post 64 Winchester 300 to hurt me during rushed load development and I was just never at home with that rifle again. It was also one of the defective 300s I have owned, the other a Browning "A" bolt that while the smoothest actioned rifle I've ever owned had a barrel that looked like it had had a threading tap run down the length of it.

Anyway, after that damaging experience with that first 300 I just made it a point to not allow a rifle to hurt me or at least not enough to develop bad shooting habits.

As said, I spend a lot of time on the bench and for many years have used a sand bag or sissy bag between the butt of the rifle and my shoulder when shooting much of anything above a .243. This includes MUCH load testing/development time with a 45/70 and heavy cast bullets.

Forget that terrible idea of a muzzle break! If your so much in a rush to get off a second shot, it is highly likely you rushed the first shot. DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT suggesting that you use a bullet of 165gr in a 300 as I think a 180 or 200gr is a much better choice, but after the Browning experience and trying a bunch of different bullet/powder combinations in an attempt to get consistency and good groups, - I never did - I had a bunch of 165gr Nosler Partitions on hand and have gone on to use that bullet, with success.

The 200gr Nosler Partition was the bullet of choice in the RUGER #1 - 300 that I passed on to a son.

I WOULD NOT feel ok with that choice were it not for the fact that the Partition is high in integrity, the point being that what ever bullet you select, make it a good one with proven integrity. The cost of the best bullets available is very small when compared to the other costs of rifle, scope, hunting an camping equipment and the expense of just getting to your hunting location.

Your possible suggestion of buying a new rifle and having it barreled is off the wall. Just buy a good rifle and forget all the other misdirected thoughts your friends have fed you.

My RUGER Hawkeye is giving me sub inch groups at a muzzle velocity of 3318fps with the 165gr Nosler and I'd expect it to also give excellent accuracy with a more proper 180 or 200gr bullet.

Trigger time even with a .22 rimfire, you need lots of it!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I plan on shooting factory ammo for a while.

 

[Roughwater]

By now you probably have already made up your mind as you have heard opinions out the ying yang already. The 300 WM is a good option for sure. I own one.

But you might want to also think light weight for Elk hunting unless you plan to only road hunt. I have bought several guns in the last few years and thought I was done buying till I started Elk hunting more. Then realized how nice it would be not to have to tote a 10lb rifle/scope/ammo combo up a mountain. So I bought a new, light but still powerful gun to elk hunt with. I am absolutely sure when I get to Utah this year to Elk hunt I will be very happy I made that decision.

But like others have said there are lots of better options than the 6.5 for sure. As some have mentioned the 280AI can be bought in a fairly light rifle as can a 7MM Rem mag but a step up from those are the 7 mm Ultra mag or the 28 Nosler.
I love my 28 it's not hard kicking, is extreamly accurate and hard hitting but brass for it is extreamly expensive. If you stay under 600 yards a 7mm mag uses the same bullet as the 28 but is much less expensive to shoot and everyone makes bullets for it if you don't reload. But whatever you get if you choose a round between a magnum 270 and a 30 cal you should be fine for elk and anything smaller and likely larger as well.

If you don't have a hard kicking rifle I wouldn't worry about having a muzzle brake at all on the gun. They do help but they also send a lot of noise back to the shooter and bystanders ears. Lots of them now come with such warnings on them. Before I had one I thought they looked cool. I recently bought a 28 Nosler which I love and it came with a brake but I've shot it without and with the great recoil pad it has on it I don't really need it so I'm going to take if off. Many take their breaks off when hunting anyway.

 

[Nevmavrick]

I just got my .264 WinMag going. It has a Shilen 26" 1-7 #3 barrel.
I've already used SOME loads with 147 ELDs, and have some Sierra 150s ready to go as soon as the winds stop.
The WM is a bit better with the larger capacity. Try using Norma 217, H870, Vihtavouri 24N41 and H1000, and see what happens.
If you object to the belt, which doesn't do anything, anyway, because you need to headspace on the shoulder, then look to the PRC.
Have fun,
Gene