Interesting article on bear spray vs. bear handgun defense

[ridgewalker]

All great info! This is a well timed thread for me. In August I will be camping alone in the Wind River Range of WY while my grandson and his bud backpack the CDT. They will each carry a can of bear spray. I will have my 40 cal Glock 23 with Lehigh penetrators in my chest holster and bear spray on my belt. I will be focussed on the WY Cutthroat Slam.
I may start looking at a Glock in 10 mm and test to see if I can handle the additional recoil.

 

[hunter0528]

Two things
1) when I worked in a gun store and sold mace I always made it a point to people, especially women, that if a person was on drugs or their sensitivity to pain was reduced Mace would not work, or at least as well as people thought.

2) old Joke
How do you tell the difference between Black Bear Scat and Grizzle Bear Scat"
a) Black Bear consists of leaves, berries, and fruit
b) Grizzle consists of hair, teeth, bone, and smells of pepper

 

[dogz]

All great info! This is a well timed thread for me. In August I will be camping alone in the Wind River Range of WY while my grandson and his bud backpack the CDT. They will each carry a can of bear spray. I will have my 40 cal Glock 23 with Lehigh penetrators in my chest holster and bear spray on my belt. I will be focussed on the WY Cutthroat Slam.
I may start looking at a Glock in 10 mm and test to see if I can handle the additional recoil.

Wyo cutt slam, by far the best part of this thread! Put up pics when you're done!

Best of luck to ya.

Side note, bear threads are never not a hoot to chime in and read............grins

 

[dogz]

The articles were an interesting read. Since you cannot carry a side arm in National Parks, bear spray probably is your best option when there. Surprising a grizzly sow with cubs on a hike in a NP is a recipe for disaster. Also, encountering an aggressive bear looking for a meal is probably not going to end well. Such is the risk of hiking in bear country. There would be no question in my mind on what I would be carrying if hunting where firearms are allowed. It would not be a can of bear spray.

Far as I know one can still carry in YNP, it's just down the road from me. No discharging is another thing. It'll be interesting to watch what happens when someone protects themselves in the park with a sidearm and takes out the bruin and lives to tell about it. How will the Park proceed from there. I'm for betting it'll be a slap on the wrist kind of thing.

 

[sedancowboy]

The articles were an interesting read. Since you cannot carry a side arm in National Parks, bear spray probably is your best option when there. Surprising a grizzly sow with cubs on a hike in a NP is a recipe for disaster. Also, encountering an aggressive bear looking for a meal is probably not going to end well. Such is the risk of hiking in bear country. There would be no question in my mind on what I would be carrying if hunting where firearms are allowed. It would not be a can of bear spray.

You can carry a sidearm in the Parks in Montana and Wyoming at least. We do it all the time both concealed and open. It is illegal to shoot an animal in the Parks. However in a self defense situation I have never seen a person prosecuted.
Leave the bear spray on the shelf and save yourself $50. Please don't put your hope in a can of spray against a angry Grizzly. It is a false hope at best.
If you are wondering I spend between 20-30 days camped in the thick of Grizzly country.

 

[Stephen Prindle]

My hunting buddy and I took our families to Glacier National Park a few years ago and hiked over 70 miles in 5 days. We both open carried, he had a ruger 480 and I had a my blackhawk in 45 Colt loaded hot. We had bear spray as well. We had done our research and determined it was legal to carry. We encountered several park rangers and were never challenged. We did however get a lot of dirty looks from other hikers. So hopefully the law has not changed for the National Parks.

 

[L2land]

Two things
1) when I worked in a gun store and sold mace I always made it a point to people, especially women, that if a person was on drugs or their sensitivity to pain was reduced Mace would not work, or at least as well as people thought.

2) old Joke
How do you tell the difference between Black Bear Scat and Grizzle Bear Scat"
a) Black Bear consists of leaves, berries, and fruit
b) Grizzle consists of hair, teeth, bone, and smells of pepper

Why is griz scat better than black bear scat?
Answer: it has more bells and whistles!!

 

[L2land]

I'm not finding it posted but I think there have been people that have finished the cut slam in WY in under 8 hrs. There's a trick but I'm not telling. better to enjoy it your way, there's a lot of great places to see while you get all four

 

[del2les]

The only spray I would ever consider carrying would be one filled with the "molecular acid" from the Alien movie. Since we don't have that, my spray can remains shaped as a gun.

Alien, maybe I need to add that to the op on hunting endangered or extinct animals.

 

[WYO300RUM]

Far as I know one can still carry in YNP, it's just down the road from me. No discharging is another thing. It'll be interesting to watch what happens when someone protects themselves in the park with a sidearm and takes out the bruin and lives to tell about it. How will the Park proceed from there. I'm for betting it'll be a slap on the wrist kind of thing.

You are correct sir. You can carry in Yellowstone.
It's the USFW Fed's that try to fine you 10K for shooting a griz.
I may be wrong but I think Obama (amazing) had something to do with a law passed to make it legal to carry in Nat. Parks. Or to be able to transport guns through Parks. I don't remember.

 

[Okanogan]

I used a can of bear spray once to try and get a badger to leave his den next to my buried propane tank. It didn't leave until after I did and it's only reaction was hot footing it because it didn't like it on it's feet. It returned shortly. Ended up using mothballs to get it to leave.

The experience did not boost my confidence in spray even though I saw a news article out of Missoula in the last couple years about a couple hikers who successfully used spray against a charging grizzly. One guy was armed and never had a chance to draw but his buddy managed to deploy the spray quick enough to stop the charge against his friend.

Neighbor had 4 griz, sow and 1 year cubs, in their yard yesterday morning. Most locals carry firearms but some of the women who go for walks have opted for spray. For those not willing or able to use firearms, the spray probably gives better odds than liberal tears.

 

[fta0303]

So I figure if I invent "Salt Spray" to compliment the pepper spray, I could just spray myself down with both, so that bear at 1.5 meters appreciates the flavors I just enhanced.

I read a number of books on dealing with bear encounters by a BC guy who taught survival in such instances, maybe 1970-1995, for the gov't and for private companies. He did a lot of independent research aimed whys & hows of bear attacks, and the psychology of suviving one. He was a true expert, in my judgement. Unfortunately, I can't remember his name. He found that bear spray deposited on the ground was an actual attractant for bears. He pointed out that to be effective, bear spray had to go into eyes, nostrils, or mouth, and was best when sprayed to coincide with bear inspiration. He too believed that Herrero's earlier studies were not useful in determing whether to carry spray or a gun.

His bear survival course recommended a 338 Win Mag, and included shooting at a quickly approaching target.

One lesson (not from him) that seems very important is the security afforded by traveling in groups. You can't watch your own back, and it's difficult to watch 180 degrees. Three or more in a group is smart. I used to travel the back country solo, fortunately there weren't that many bears where I was. Avoiding the brush is also good advice.

I wouldn't carry both a handgun and spray - I think it just leads to potentially deadly confusion and delay.

 

[fta0303]

The articles were an interesting read. Since you cannot carry a side arm in National Parks, bear spray probably is your best option when there. Surprising a grizzly sow with cubs on a hike in a NP is a recipe for disaster. Also, encountering an aggressive bear looking for a meal is probably not going to end well. Such is the risk of hiking in bear country. There would be no question in my mind on what I would be carrying if hunting where firearms are allowed. It would not be a can of bear spray.

I always carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk while hiking the sub-alpine country in Mt Rainier park, keeping it accessible but discreetly hidden. Sorry.

A grizzly sow and cubs can go 3 ways: 1) the cubs run far away in the opposite direction - the sow will likely follow them, or might stay to maul you 2) the cubs tree nearby - the sow will maul you 3) the cubs are yearlings and approach you out of curiosity - the sow will use you to teach predation to her cubs - this will be fatal encounter. The third instance and the instance in which you violate a grizzly's food cache will be fatal encounters - the bear will try to kill you. Many other grizzly encounters may be of the educational mauling kind - the grizzly hurts you but leaves you alive to communicate your fearsome experience to your species-mates.

Grizzlies grow increasingly aggressive toward people if they aren't hunted. Think of the grizzly's educational mauling - it is analogous to a human hurting the grizzly in a human-bear encounter - the grizzly learns that humans can hurt him and may somehow communicate that to his species-mates. Using a handgun will hurt the bear if you hit him, maybe that will contribute to bears avoiding humans in that area. I can't guess at the effect of bear spray in this context.

 

[fta0303]

All great info! This is a well timed thread for me. In August I will be camping alone in the Wind River Range of WY while my grandson and his bud backpack the CDT. They will each carry a can of bear spray. I will have my 40 cal Glock 23 with Lehigh penetrators in my chest holster and bear spray on my belt. I will be focussed on the WY Cutthroat Slam.
I may start looking at a Glock in 10 mm and test to see if I can handle the additional recoil.

I loved my solitary wilderness experiences. Unfortunately, being alone in grizzly country is not a good idea - most grizzly attacks occur on solitary humans. There is a smaller likelihood of being attacked if there are two of you. But 3 or more is best. Avoid brushy areas, keep to high visibility environments.

I don't say don't go solo, I say be aware that most grizzly attacks happen to people by themselves, and try to be triply alert. I remember the feeling of being alone in the wilderness, nothing matches it. But it does come with its dangers.