Afriend of mine holds current world records and it is NF BENCH model 12-42.He had a S&B and sent it back,to his eyes NF was better.I was spotting for him at 1000 w/big Ziess and I said it looks like you have a group and he was ,yes I see it threw his scope.He is younger and I notices has very good vision.He only keeps targets under 3'' @1000.He like the scope because he can see well threw it and has shot one for years .so very familar with adjustments,second nature for him.He also plays with a 338 LAI out to 2000 yrd.Ill try to get picture from him,cool looking rig.
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First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane
- Thread starter ishootkittens
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The entire discussion has been based on long range hunting... Not benchrest, so I thought that is what we were talking about yet.
... and Braz, there is an important difference between KNOWN distance, and SET distance. Benchrest is the same distance every time you shoot, unless you change events. Otherwise, 100yd, 300yd, 600yd, 1000yd.
Distance is the same.
Target is the same.
Position is the same.
You get sighters before you fire for record.
There are a great many people running fixed 36x or 42x optics for benchrest with success. While there are people using FFP for benchrest... it brings absolutely nothing to the table over SFP. I know a couple guys running the march 5-40FFP in benchrest. They're quite pleased with it. Yet they say the same thing... there is no real point in having FFP. If mirage is too thick, you can dial back a SFP and dump some sighters into the berm. Problem solved. Most of the benchrest competitors I have talked with don't use the reticle for their holds, they use the target itself.
... and Braz, there is an important difference between KNOWN distance, and SET distance. Benchrest is the same distance every time you shoot, unless you change events. Otherwise, 100yd, 300yd, 600yd, 1000yd.
Distance is the same.
Target is the same.
Position is the same.
You get sighters before you fire for record.
There are a great many people running fixed 36x or 42x optics for benchrest with success. While there are people using FFP for benchrest... it brings absolutely nothing to the table over SFP. I know a couple guys running the march 5-40FFP in benchrest. They're quite pleased with it. Yet they say the same thing... there is no real point in having FFP. If mirage is too thick, you can dial back a SFP and dump some sighters into the berm. Problem solved. Most of the benchrest competitors I have talked with don't use the reticle for their holds, they use the target itself.
Broz
Well-Known Member
The world record, that's pretty impressive and he preferred the BR Nightforce in SFP.
Do you know what he has for a scope on his 338 LAI for use at 2000 yards? I would like to know what a world record holder prefers when he shoots a different discipline, more in tune to the way I shoot and hunt.
Jeff
As for the challenge between the AM and the LRKM. Well I prefer to just meet up for some friendly cold bore rock busting. Then you can tell the story if you want no matter how it turns out. I have been out shot before, but lets talk about that after it happens.
Jeff
Broz,
Two awesome guns built for a similar purpose running against each other for comparison, two shooters… should that day come to fruition I don't view the comparison as one shooter outshooting the other. It's like answering the question "is the glass half empty or half full?"
I'm confident both guns will perform to the high standards within the purpose for why they were designed. I'll be favoring the AM because that's my gun. When I'm shooting I'll be relying on you to provide me the corrections....my shooting is just putting the exclamation mark on all the work of the spotter…..so if one shooter connects their shot closer than the other shooter, the spotter in my experience takes the majority of the credit but it's still a two person effort. Having fun is ultimate goal.
I'll probably bring along my TRG-42 for holdover comparison. It's topped with the NXS 42X. I can only dial MOA elevation corrections in the upper 30's in contrast with the other NXS models requiring holdover for ranges past 1400.
If you're still interested I'll let you know when the AM is complete. Maybe others will want to join in and hopefully will have FFPs also for comparison.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Back up a little here, a good deal of the argument for FFP has been made coming from a tactical type comp format, we all pull other shooting experience and apply it to our LR hunting after all what percentage of our shots in a year are on game at long range.
My LR hunting far more resemble BR with the exception it's a cold bore BR match
My average hunting does resemble more of a tactical type shooting, range it gun it kinda deal but I use a BDC turret which is stupid fast to kill game within it's window.Right... like I said, I mistook the tone of the conversation for a second.
I disagree that hunting is like benchrest however. Sure, you are ranging and engaging from a fixed position far away. However, the position you are in, and that of the animal, are ever changing.
Not so with benchrest. Always the same target at the same distance. Much more controlled. I'd choose a SFP for benchrest for that reason.
I disagree that hunting is like benchrest however. Sure, you are ranging and engaging from a fixed position far away. However, the position you are in, and that of the animal, are ever changing.
Not so with benchrest. Always the same target at the same distance. Much more controlled. I'd choose a SFP for benchrest for that reason.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
From the time I range to the time I pull the trigger on a long range animal, there is no change, it might as well be a target frame. If the animal does move it's re range and re dial and we're back to the same fixed range.
Yes I realize that... but do you shoot every animal at 600yds exactly, or 1000yds, or 300yds? Benchrest is the same range, exact same target dimensions, every time.
Critters move around, so you'll be at a different distance on nearly every engagement.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Yes but with a ballistics program and a quality range finder 1000 yards is the same as 1177 yards, as LR hunters we've just gone mobile
Broz,His old one had a NF,not sure what his new set up is on the 338 LAI.You have actually conversed with him on this site in another thread about long range scopes.Im sure it is a NF just not sure on model.He wants same thing more adjustment,he had a custom adjustable base,but was not accurate or repeatable.
Broz
Well-Known Member
Oh OK, if you find out what he settled on for a scope on that AI hammer please let me know.
MMERSS, you bet!! Let me know when you get your rifle, I would think I will have mine in the not too distant future. Then maybe we can go rock hunting one day. I am always up for that.gun)
Jeff
jakelly
Well-Known Member
For me long range hunting is about adding long range shooting capabilities to my standard hunting skill set. Now, if an animal hangs up on a call, or I can't get closer to the herd, I have a tool for that. I don't really get "into" setting up for a planned shot at 1700 yds for the sake of reaching further, not saying someone else should share my ideas or their's are wrong. I think what I do and practice should be called long range hunting, even though it really isn't very similar to the long range hunting Broz et al is describing. Maybe we could clarify by calling your hunting extreme long range, Broz et al. I think part of the fervor of the discussion is fueled by this discrepancy in styles or ideals. I know my desire to chime in is kindled when I hear, "What benefit is there for long range hunting?" I don't believe you are intending any harm at all, btw. I know the benefits FFP are well worth it and very valuable to my hunting framework. Money saved is the only possible benefit to SFP for my long range hunting.
How do you SFP users feel about the hollow center reticles for precision aiming? I have two Weavers with them and I think have a lot of utility. When shooting for groups at 100 in the past, I have found myself visualizing the point of true aim behind the hairs. Using this design I never do that, or am always doing it depending on how you look at it.
If it makes a difference I never thought you two were going to go shooting together. I appreciate the tenacity and fight. I'm a man, like the kind that used to have duels over honor and princple. I actually think these things do some good. Keep your punches up, I want a good clean fight.
How do you SFP users feel about the hollow center reticles for precision aiming? I have two Weavers with them and I think have a lot of utility. When shooting for groups at 100 in the past, I have found myself visualizing the point of true aim behind the hairs. Using this design I never do that, or am always doing it
depending on how you look at it.If it makes a difference I never thought you two were going to go shooting together
. I appreciate the tenacity and fight. I'm a man, like the kind that used to have duels over honor and princple. I actually think these things do some good. Keep your punches up, I want a good clean fight. Broz
Well-Known Member
I agree and I try to include distances to what I am stating. I have even in this thread used the ELR term. To me it is past 1000 like our ELR forum here. I also try to include the hunting / shooting criteria when I can. I have yet to shoot game at a mile. But I have past 1000 on many occasions. However a rock, coyote, wolf or vermin I will take at any distance shot I feel would not be a total waste of ammo.
Since I have not used one of the hollow center reticles I can only offer a first impression. I doubt I would like it for my uses. Now I have used floating dot and liked it. My favorite was the MP-8 dot from IOR. I have a floating crosshair in my new ATACR. I like the looks of it, but wish the floating part was thinner, lets say .050 or .060 moa. To me that reticle would be the cats meow.
I would not say never to us shooting together. Unless Orkin has a different feeling. I think there is a pretty good chance we will cross paths sooner or later. I also feel it could be a good way for both of us to learn to appreciate the others ways, methods and abilities.
Jeff
