First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

[sp6x6]

The hollow center is by far my favorite,wish all where this way.Was out last weekend,first shot to warm up at 200,put 1 1/2 stcky dot in center.I took out the black diamond, I can aim at bullet holes for targets.You cant get any more precise.Most bench at 1000 us the dot,that is on a white center,that gets naturally centered with eye.Small bore 50 ' indoor is black bull centerd by "eye" in peep,there is no cross hair and perfect 100's are shot

 

[yobuck]

From the time I range to the time I pull the trigger on a long range animal, there is no change, it might as well be a target frame. If the animal does move it's re range and re dial and we're back to the same fixed range.

i am not finding fault with this comment. or for that matter most others that have been stated here. ive had numerous conversations with broz with regard to long range hunting. for the most part i would concur with just about all he says.
i do want to add one thing which i feel many of you lose sight of.
all places in this big country arent the same. yes the way we shoot is no different nor the way we range etc etc etc.
but the country in which we hunt is different and so are some of the animals that live there.
if you would hunt whitetails especially during the rut on the steep tree covered hills we hunt as you described,
figere on getting your hat handed to you on most occaisions.
first off he's got one thing on his mind and it aint cooperating with you.
that means he's on the move and when he does stop odds are you wont have a shot due to trees. next time he stops could be the same or he could stop just long enough to allow you a shot. now im not making this scenario up.
this is real life stuff.
how long you gonna screw around with your program and redialing before it sinks in he's almost over the top of the hill?
well i guarantee thats only gonna happen once at least for most guys.
chances for us easterners dont happen that often and when they do youd sometimes best be creative rather than good.
and thats where reticles can be very helpfull.
one more thing. next time you guys are out in the woods go sit under say a 16" oak tree. and as your sitting there with your back against that tree take a look straight up at all those branches. now just 20' over there and there and there there are others with all those branches overlapping.
now lets talk about first round cold bore hits.
because that scenario is also reality.

 

[Pdvdh]

how long you gonna screw around with your program and redialing before it sinks in he's almost over the top of the hill?

now lets talk about first round cold bore hits.
because that scenario is also reality.

We just wait until he reappears on the 5th ridge over. Then snipe him from 1000+ yds... gun)

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Been checking in on this thread now and then. Haven't read all the posts but thought I'd throw my two beans in the pot.

I've got a 5.5-22X50 NXS SFP NP-R2. There are basically only 2 powers I use. The 5.5x and the 22x. Most of my hunting is spot and stalk walking around. While hunting in the search (walking) mode, my scope is always set to 5.5x in case something close appears. Anything from zero to 250 yds is point blank hold. Beyond 250, I am ranging and anything to 350 is an easy T-LAR (That Looks About Right) adjustment in elevation. Anything beyond 350 and I am cranking up to 22X and processing the dope.

No reason in the world do I need a FFP. I won't take hurried LR shots. If things aren't right, I don't shoot. If I've got time to range, process the dope and make the shot, I've got time to dial it. If in the very rare instance I might use my reticle to holdover, I'm good to go at 22x.

 

[jakelly]

The hollow center is by far my favorite,wish all where this way.Was out last weekend,first shot to warm up at 200,put 1 1/2 stcky dot in center.I took out the black diamond, I can aim at bullet holes for targets.You cant get any more precise.Most bench at 1000 us the dot,that is on a white center,that gets naturally centered with eye.Small bore 50 ' indoor is black bull centerd by "eye" in peep,there is no cross hair and perfect 100's are shot

I have never used one until I recently purchased two Weaver Tactical scopes which both have hollow centers. I find these reticles far superior, with several practical advantages, the best of those advantages being precise aim. Wondered if others thought the same. This seems to be a major stride in solving reticle size issues with FFP systems.

 

[dakor]

We just wait until he reappears on the 5th ridge over. Then snipe him from 1000+ yds... gun)

That is a little tough when the ridge he is on is already 1100 to begin with. ;-)

 

[mildot1960]

If any of the readers here (Mr. Orkan excluded) feels I have posted any inaccurate facts or misled anyone please tell me and I will gladly stop posting on this thread. I wish it were easier to get a point across in print but it is very hard some times.

Trust me when I say if I felt a FFP would bring something to my table my new ELR rifle would be wearing one. I just don't see it and I have tried.

Jeff

Broz, I dont feel that you you stuffed anything up and your both right about your own scopes highs and lows, and theres no way would I spend $3500 on a scope, I've done most of my most amazing shots with cheaper scope, and like you I to like the fact that when I zoom in that the target gets bigger while the cross hairs stay small now saying that I have no doubts that these FFP's are the are the Ducks Guts of scopes for applied situations, but the SFP has done all these tasks since Jesus played Quarter Back for Jerusalum,

Now at the moment I'm thinking of buying a Bushnell 6500/Tac scope and yet like I said I have done my best shots with much cheaper scope than that, Like you if my shot has been 6" left and 3" down i just move up 3" and 6" right, Job Done,

Plus the fact the deer dont care what scope it gets shot with, Bottom line is their all just tools and it dont matter what scope you got if you cant shoot,

When I practice at the range I use 5yard/meter air pistol targets at a 100yds because the 10 ring is so small and the harder that I can make it for my self the better and I dont use a scope stronger than 9 or 10 power and when I do this,

Blessin's John

 

[mildot1960]

Because its the SFP crowd claiming FFP can't get it done in certain situations... Not the other way around. They describe how they tried it once and didn't like it. Then they cite something completely opposite of my personal experience as a reason why it didn't work. Someone asks about FFP and they get instructed in all the ways that it won't work. Well that's where I try to instruct them in the ways that they DO work. At each turn, while providing evidence that it works, it's continually shut down.

As for my sponsorship here... It's pretty straight forward. If it pays off, I'll continue sponsoring. If it doesn't... I'll stop. Pretty simple. I could care less how many "groupies" braz has. One's number of followers has very little to do with this discussion. Like I really have a motivation to show up and shoot with someone that thinks I only speak because I have a financial motivation to do so. No thanks. I have better things to do with my time than hang around someone with that opinion of me. Those attacks being unchecked will certainly weigh in on my decision whether to remain a sponsor. If the cool-kids club is successful at making sure FFP always ends up on the bottom of every discussion, then it won't make much financial sense to be here will it? That doesn't mean I'm financially motivated... that just means there is no point in hanging around somewhere where what I'm selling is so strongly opposed. No one dare shoot FFP if they want to "fit in!"

I went into it knowing I'd be in the minority on this site. Doesn't mean the membership here doesn't deserve a glimpse to the other side. If it were as easy as "we're both correct" then I could easily settle with that. Yet that's not where it is. Due to the sheer number of SFP shooters on this forum vs FFP... it's always left with FFP being somehow inferior, and SFP being better. Well I won't leave that alone. Those whom come read this discussion, will at least know that there are people effectively and easily using FFP reticles to hunt.

I'm sorry man that you feel like this as I really wanted to learn something here and I really wanted to Buy an FFP scpoe so I had all bases coverd, maybe not one for 3500 but still I have done Alot of research on them and orderd one,

Hell I dont even know Braz, But I'm sorry but you're wrong and rude, In the begining just after you two had all but Ironed out the wrinkles here It was you who had to take the first shot at him, Why because so far all we have had is 16/17 pages of this (those are the pages I got up to when I found this last mess)

I feel sorry for the Guy who started this thread,

Sure hope we can have some decent imput here

 

[ishootkittens]

I feel sorry for the Guy who started this thread,

Sure hope we can have some decent imput here

Oh... Is this thread still here? hmmm I just went and googled my question after all... seemed more simple just to do it that way

 

[HARPERC]

As for my sponsorship here... It's pretty straight forward. If it pays off, I'll continue sponsoring. If it doesn't... I'll stop. Pretty simple. I could care less how many "groupies" braz has. One's number of followers has very little to do with this discussion. Like I really have a motivation to show up and shoot with someone that thinks I only speak because I have a financial motivation to do so. No thanks. I have better things to do with my time than hang around someone with that opinion of me. Those attacks being unchecked will certainly weigh in on my decision whether to remain a sponsor. If the cool-kids club is successful at making sure FFP always ends up on the bottom of every discussion, then it won't make much financial sense to be here will it? That doesn't mean I'm financially motivated... that just means there is no point in hanging around somewhere where what I'm selling is so strongly opposed. No one dare shoot FFP if they want to "fit in!"

1) I think I understand "sponsorship", and in no way does that discredit you in my opinion. I've used other sponsors here, and have yet to regret it.
2)I've never been accused of being a "groupie".
3)I've never sat at the cool kids table.
4)I scan threads to see what interest me with one eye, who's posting with the other. If I see Broz is commenting (and others) I'm likely to read it. He has a long history of credibility, especially as relates to being successful at LRH.
5) I've learned a lot from your posts, and video's as well. I like the way you measure the various parameters. Things I had not considered previously as a factor.
Myself I'm looking for that next scope to move out to more distance. I have not put a cap on how much it will cost, but that doesn't mean it won't be painful. Getting one that doesn't work from the start would take all the joy out of it. Even if it's warrantied.
I've even considered adding plane fare to the cost so I can get a first hand look, at scopes unavailable locally. This is a one time major purchase for some of us, and while the discussion gets down to the "taste great"-"less filling" beer commercial level at times, there is way more than a six pack involved.
6) SFP is what I am used to, and I'm guilty of being resistant to change.
I hope you stay, but I'm more hopeful this thread gets back on a positive track.

 

[PEEWEE69]

ok Im new to ffp and long range shooting and hunting I got a Vortex pst 4-16x50 in the ffp and the same scope in a sfp so Im comparing apples to apples why does the image (target) seem or is bigger in my sfp scope no matter the power setting if this is how all ffp scopes are then Im paying extra money for less magnification and only one benefit then to me it's not worth the extra $$ so is it just me or the scope is bad or is it that that's how a ffp scope is ?

 

[Broz]

ok Im new to ffp and long range shooting and hunting I got a Vortex pst 4-16x50 in the ffp and the same scope in a sfp so Im comparing apples to apples why does the image (target) seem or is bigger in my sfp scope no matter the power setting if this is how all ffp scopes are then Im paying extra money for less magnification and only one benefit then to me it's not worth the extra $$ so is it just me or the scope is bad or is it that that's how a ffp scope is ?

I noticed that too. Is this comparison from an earlier post what you are referring to?

If the above comparison is indeed to scale with both scopes on 25X I think it relays some of my complaints with FFP and my long range and ELR shooting and hunting.

If one just studies the difference in the comparison it is not hard to see what I have been talking about.

Jeff

 

[James Mock]

If one likes the features of a FFP scope, that is the one he/she should buy. If the preference is for the SFP, then that is the one for you. All of this bickering about which one is best is like a Chevy vs Ford argument. The differences have been clearly explained here. Make your choice and live happily ever after. James

 

[PEEWEE69]

broz
that's exactly what I meen but Im not going only by the post pic but by looking through both my scopes both are vortex viper pst 4-16x50 only difference is one is ffp and the other is sfp so if this is how a ffp scope is then Im paying extra $$ for 16 power and only getting 10 not worth it to me
Im gonna call vortex and see what they say