ELD-X on grizzly?

[Overkill338]

This is what I was alluding to in an earlier post - handguns have been proven to discourage bear attacks. There are several examples where even a 9mm was able to convince a grizzly it wasn't worth his time.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5sf5FYuSP

When it comes to bear defense your goal is to survive or discourage an attack, not drop the bear in its tracks.

Hunting bears with a handgun is a different story...way different that using them for bear protection.

Underwoods 200 and 220 hardcast in 10mm will penetrate 5+ feet. Leaves a bigger tract than a rifle bullet, just doesnt have the hydrostatic shock.

 

[FIGJAM]

Underwoods 200 and 220 hardcast in 10mm will penetrate 5+ feet. Leaves a bigger tract than a rifle bullet, just doesnt have the hydrostatic shock.

Thats what i carry in my 29 when I am hunting in grizzly country

 

[sea2summit]

Underwoods 200 and 220 hardcast in 10mm will penetrate 5+ feet. Leaves a bigger tract than a rifle bullet, just doesnt have the hydrostatic shock.

I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you but I still don't understand how in one paragraph you can say a rifle producing 3,500 ft/pnds of energy isn't nearly enough for bears yet a pistol round that is rated from a longer barrel than your G20 for only 703 ft/pnds is the best answer to the problem. And BTW most tests with the hard cast 10mm rounds have them skew wildly off the direction of travel at impact because they're almost as big around as they are wide so even if you got 5', where is that 5' really going?

There's way better options out there.

 

[Rudolph Ferdinand]

I have only killed one black bear it was a little over 400 lbs in Arkansas. I was 16 and only had a 12ga auto with buck shot. It was eating our calves so it had to be done. Two 3" 000 mags broadside at 25 yards did it but I was so scared I shot it 9 more times at point blank. Needless to say i was out there alone and would have loved to had a heavy constructed bullet from a rifle. If I was going to use my .300 Whby mag I would load up some 220 Nos partition i have set back for heavy bone or dangerous game. It is also nerve wracking having a long tusk hawg charging fast through the brush with an AR on hand and 30 rounds. Some things only give you one chance to get it down.

Barnes X-bullet 200 grains is better than a Nosler 220 grains Partition. It has better penetration. I know a big game hunter here in Alaska and that is all he uses, Barnes X-Bullet.

 

[358 Guy]

Not wrong at all. I had an old time Alaskan bear guide tell me years ago that he actually preferred breaking a shoulder to slow the bear down a bit. If you are confident in your shooting skills, then by all means take a shoulder shot if you can hit the vitals too. My only Brownie I shot through the left front leg, (breaking it) through one lung then the heart. The bear went down at the shot, then tried to get up. He expired before I could get a follow-up shot. Bullet: 300 gr. TSX, 375 Ruger, 90 yds.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Cool story bro. I heard about a guy that won the lottery using fortune cookie numbers and while I love some Chinese food I still don't play the lottery. I think the "guides" you are talking about are carrying "a gun for bears" but they aren't carrying a gun to go seek out bears that are already way upset/wounded.

Next time you go to the range find a thrift store stuffed animal, shove that glock into it and pull the trigger. Let me know if you get more than 2-4 shots to function without having to use two hands to clear a malfunction. Now imagine wearing that pistol for a five day trip through the rainforest of Southeast Alaska without maintaining it because your moving/glassing from dark to dark and imagine how much worse it would function.

With a full flap holster they function great. Btdt.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Just curious for those who have actual experience, but if you were actually shooting a deep penetrating caliber (e.g. 375 or 416) with a proper bullet (e.g. hammer, Barnes, A-frame), wouldn't you want to take a straight-line shot through a shoulder if the angle was where the vitals lined up with the bullet path through the shoulder? I would think a "vitals" shot with the extra incapacitation of a broken shoulder (just in case) would be a good thing. (Only If completely comfortable with the gun) Am I wrong on this one?

Not wrong. I always aim for heavy bone in brown bear. Sometimes its the off side shoulder.
I shoot the 458 Win mag and various 416s. . They are my deer hunting carts and rifles till after the bears go to bed and I'm beach hunting from a skiff.
Most of what people think they know about large bore rifles tends to be skewed towards the comments like ( better an 06 in the boiler room than a 458 in the ***)
Wrong.
Last brown bear I shot was at 47 feet from the muzzle. 416 Rem mag. 300 gr tsx, moly tumbled. 86 gr H4895 Fed 215. 22" McGowan 1 in 10" twist stainless cryonized barrel
Wanted to see how well the bullet would work. Bear was approx 8'6" square. Shot him as he was facing away from me just before he could swing around and charge. Bullet entered where the tail hip (joint) (?) .
Before the rifle was in full recoil the bear was on the ground . Totally incapacitated. I shot it A few more times just for good measure.
I've dumped a few brown bear with the 458 Win with similar shots and with several other shot placements as well as with other 416s.
I've killed 28 deer with 458s and probably more with 416s.
I shoot the rifles well.
Smaller carts can work well on brown /grizzly bears. But they generally don't produce as spectacular dumps. So , please, enough disparaging some of the very best bear carts!
Learn how to shoot them well and fast and your gtg.


The OP's original ?
Frangible bullets and bears don't go well together most of the time. For every successful kill, there are close to 1 wounded and lost bear. I live here and hear the stories . See the remains of bullets dug out of bears that were walking around some time later packin someone else's bullets in their bodies.
My 1st pick for a 30 caliber bullet to be used for bear is a 200 gr tsx. 2nd, 200 gr Swift A-Frame .
Elds, no. Only as a very last resort !

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Underwoods 200 and 220 hardcast in 10mm will penetrate 5+ feet. Leaves a bigger tract than a rifle bullet, just doesnt have the hydrostatic shock.

No,
Maybe it will penetrate farther than some small or frangible rifle bullet.
I've blown 458 and 416 bullets thru 6 feet and more of brown bear. A 10mm ain't gonna do that !
And had wound cavities that were over 4" diameter.

 

[Rudolph Ferdinand]

Not wrong at all. I had an old time Alaskan bear guide tell me years ago that he actually preferred breaking a shoulder to slow the bear down a bit. If you are confident in your shooting skills, then by all means take a shoulder shot if you can hit the vitals too. My only Brownie I shot through the left front leg, (breaking it) through one lung then the heart. The bear went down at the shot, then tried to get up. He expired before I could get a follow-up shot. Bullet: 300 gr. TSX, 375 Ruger, 90 yds.

No shoulder shots. The bear still has the other leg and he can still get to you. I have heard of the shoulder shot for years...last year while at the shooting range here Alaska, I met Terry a brown bear guide and we talked where is the best place to place a bullet, not in the shoulder. The heart shot or spine shot...with the shoulder shot, you will need to take out both shoulders, one out, the bear can still get to you. And even with a headshot is not a stopper. I met a hunter in 2013, he shot a grizzly bear headshot and it did not stop the bear. What he said to me was, it took one lucky shot to the bear mouth striking the spine from inside his body...with bear stopped about three feet from him. The Sag River northern Alaska.

 

[FIGJAM]

How much penetration do you really need to kill a bear? I know some people feel like they need a complete pass through to feel good about their bullet selection. I have always been ok with the berger type bullet that goes in and blows up the vitals with no exit wound - those seem to kill quicker than any other bullet I have used.

I just can't see a berger or eldx not killing a bear - those who are against these bullets, do you not think they will make it to the vitals?

 

[Rudolph Ferdinand]

How much penetration do you really need to kill a bear? I know some people feel like they need a complete pass through to feel good about their bullet selection. I have always been ok with the berger type bullet that goes in and blows up the vitals with no exit wound - those seem to kill quicker than any other bullet I have used.

I just can't see a berger or eldx not killing a bear - those who are against these bullets, do you not think they will make it to the vitals?

That is a loaded question! How many heartbeats do a brown bear has per minute? A solid bullet, one piece or bonded bullet. A headshot may stop a brown bear/grizzly, not even a heart. The brown bear guides I met a few says, best that they don't know you are around.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I consider the shoulder/leg joint to be a great place to shoot a bear. If not the near shoulder then the offside shoulder/leg. Done it a few times, works great.
Spine shot can work good.
It's a favorite shot with a master guide up here that sometimes packs an 06. But he also packs a 458 for serious backup work.

 

[FIGJAM]

I consider the shoulder/leg joint to be a great place to shoot a bear. If not the near shoulder then the offside shoulder/leg. Done it a few times, works great.
Spine shot can work good.
It's a favorite shot with a master guide up here that sometimes packs an 06. But he also packs a 458 for serious backup work.

Spine shots obviously paralyze them, but is that the best way to a clean quick kill? Seems kind of messed up to intentionally shoot something in the spine. I have seen a few elk spined with guys bragging about how they knocked the legs out from under them only to find out the animal has been laying there suffering for 45 min. and we had to finish them off.

 

[358 Guy]

When hunting dangerous game, any shot that immobilizes the animal is a good one. That's a moral dilemma I can live with. I can't remember all the deer that I have helped track after being wounded by a poorly placed shot and had to be finished off sometimes hours after they were first hit. We owe any game we harvest as clean a kill as possible, but for various reasons sometimes it just doesn't happen.