Copper vs lead

[snox801]

Who said anything about using cheap bullets. I think a 160 accubond will kill that elk dead as a hammer( pun intended) for about half the price.

I can say I was all nosler before gong mono. Still run them in a few rigs. Still love them. And they do work. But I have to say I still have better performance with hammers. Especially if you hit heavy bone or African game. And to be far to you that makes a big difference in cartridges.
That was more towards my line of thought.
The hammers leave me more confidence in using a smaller round than lead. I can now fell confidence in taking bigger game with my 6.5 creed than I could with lead. After some less than ideal lead performance with my 6.5 on African game is what got me to try the hammers. Well that and a long talk with Steve and his offer to buy them back if I was t happy.

 

[snox801]

I started shooting hammers this year after using Barnes in the past. Much better internal trauma and MUCH easier load development. Barnes always were finicky to get to shoot in my experience. Hammers have been stupidly easy. Shot a buck with the 155 .284 hammer hunters and a hog with the 205 .338 sledgehammer so far.

Not to sidetrack but what cartridge did you do the sledgehammers out of? I have a lapua improved I'm thinking of launch 200gr ish sledge hammers out of.

 

[CApighunter]

Not to sidetrack but what cartridge did you do the sledgehammers out of? I have a lapua improved I'm thinking of launch 200gr ish sledge hammers out of.

338-06, doing just over 2800 from a 21 inch barrel.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Reason is I'm in CA and we are now lead feee (freaking communist here) and plan on a lot more out of state hunting. I'm building a new 308 and thinking that if I can get a 140-150 grain bullet in a solid that is pushing around 2000 FPS

I wouldn't build a 308 to shoot copper. I would want to launch at like 3300 fps so it will open at distance. Also remember twist. These are so long, I would speed up my twist. Something like 300prc/300 weatherby launching 165-180's from a 26" barrel 1:9 twist maybe. They need like 2200fps to open up effectively at impact.

 

[KSB209]

I wouldn't build a 308 to shoot copper. I would want to launch at like 3300 fps so it will open at distance. Also remember twist. These are so long, I would speed up my twist. Something like 300prc/300 weatherby launching 165-180's from a 26" barrel 1:9 twist maybe. They need like 2200fps to open up effectively at impact.

I have a 300 WM that I can use for longer shots or heavier bullets. The rifle I'm building is going to be for 400-500 yds max while hunting and longer work at the range. With 150 grain coppers they should be around 2000-2100 FPS. Everything I have read is copper needs to be above 1800 FPS to open (and ideally 2000 FPS )

 

[BEEMAN]

I believe the guys at hammer say 1800 FPS minimum for expansion.

 

[seattleman1969]

I have had phenomenal performance from Barnes, not one complaint and articles like this make me that much happier at choosing lead free...

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/pdf/2020/LeadEagles.pdf

Pay particular attention to the x-ray of processed game meat shot with a lead core bullet.

I have not tried hammers yet, but I am certainly interested.

I do not deny in any way that lead performs, but since I love eating healthy wild game, why add lead to it?

 

[ww874]

I have had phenomenal performance from Barnes, not one complaint and articles like this make me that much happier at choosing lead free...

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/pdf/2020/LeadEagles.pdf

Pay particular attention to the x-ray of processed game meat shot with a lead core bullet.

I have not tried hammers yet, but I am certainly interested.

I do not deny in any way that lead performs, but since I love eating healthy wild game, why add lead to it?

I agree 100%

 

[Deleted member 107796]

" . . . Hammer bullets they act like a monolithic partition . . . "

Interesting analogy. Sounds pretty accurate, too.

They are both designed to shed weight immediately on impact so it's not a leaded vs mono comparison. Other monos like the GMX and Barnes will shed much less and rely on expansion, which they do very well. The other monos have excellent reviews as well but I see very little about the Nosler E tip.

I reload both leaded and monos for many calibers and have a singular goal of a well placed shot, so the idea of using lead is no real issue to me for big game. I think I'd use monos for prairie varmints in consideration of the raptors here in CO.

 

[ducky]

I just subscribe to shoot what your rifle likes best. Californians have it a little tougher since the majority of bullets sold are still lead based. Just pick the right bullet for the application is how I roll these days.

That said I'm about to head out and test some 95 grain LRX in my 6mm Creedmoor, if they don't shoot as well as the Hornady 105 BTHP I won't use them on my 4th season hunt next week. However, they've been shooting well enough I'll probably use them as I'm interested in their performance. This is my first time shooting the LRX, TTSX and GMX bullets have worked well in the past for me.

I haven't tried premium all copper bullets yet, but I probably will. I like shooting my .300 Blackout suppressed and have been looking at the 85-110 grain copper bullets for hunting. I'd love to try some subsonics but 220 grain cup and core don't seem to open up very well and they aren't legal for big game in CO. I've been thinking of casting some almost pure lead projectiles and powdercoating for my subsonic hunting for varmints and out of State, I'mbetting they'll work similar to a round ball out of a ML.

Again it's all about the application.

 

[StumpGrinder]

When I first switched to copper bullets (TTSX) it was with my 30-06, I kept my bullet weight the same as my lead loads at 180gr. This combo worked good but I didn't realize until I started using 85gr TSX in a 243 for my wife and 120gr TTSX in my 260 that I didn't need a heavy bullet to get the performance I wanted on game ( in my case whitetail) I am now working on a load for the 30-06 with a 150gr TTSX and expect it to work quite well. From what I gather from reading and first hand experience is to make sure the bullet impact velocity is enough to initiate expansion... I believe Barnes has this posted on their website, unsure about other companies as I have no experience with them. Good luck

Yes With ALL bullets impact velocity is critical! Each bullet is designed to perform within an optimum velocity window. Go above that and they fragment, below and they fail to completely expand if at all. I don't know of any bullet that can perform perfectly from muzzle velocity to extreme terminal range. That would be a "Magic" bullet! However Barnes does it better for me than anything else I have tried and I have been hand loading for 40 years. The next best performance for me has been Full Metal jackets, the nearly always give full penetration and always tumble when they hit!!! People have been saying for years that they are unethical because they just make one little hole all the way through. I call B.S. in every video with high powered rifles and even 22lr, when the bullet is long and tapered such as Spitzer and 22 round nose they tumble within 2"-4" of impact no matter what the velocity!!! This is why the M-16 was dubbed "the Magic Bullet" and why it always hits above its weight class. Deer shot with 62gr fmj has .75" exit hole and expires within 50 yds. Upon cleaning the lungs look like the were hit with a hollow point. Same results with 22lr round nose except .5" exit and they walk not run about 20 yds and lay down. The 22 is legal in my state and DOESN'T spook them so they don't run!!! You do have to hit the terminal triangle, just rib cage, no shoulder bones.

 

[rawsk]

I switched to Barnes TTSX a few years ago. I went to the 165 gr in my 300 WM. I have shot pronghorn out to 400. Several Blacktails as close as 50 yds. Two elk at 200yds. So all normal hunting ranges and all sizes of animals. The bullets are devastating. Bone is no match for them. They are accurate for me. Animals drop immediately except one elk and I shot forward through shoulders. Broke bones on both sides. That elk went a couple hundred yards. I trust those bullets to do the job every time on every shot.

 

[bigngreen]

We are WAY raptor heavy, WAY, WAY out of control and the last reason to shoot copper, we've lost most of our Mt Goats in one unit because of the Eagles and they are the cause of all this Grouse issues, they need delisted and you get an eagle, wolf, grizzly combo tag!!

 

[StumpGrinder]

They are both designed to shed weight immediately on impact so it's not a leaded vs mono comparison. Other monos like the GMX and Barnes will shed much less and rely on expansion, which they do very well. The other monos have excellent reviews as well but I see very little about the Nosler E tip.

I reload both leaded and monos for many calibers and have a singular goal of a well placed shot, so the idea of using lead is no real issue to me for big game. I think I'd use monos for prairie varmints in consideration of the raptors here in CO.

I have shot the E tips and still have some in 308. The concern was that they were hard on barrels because they didn't give the copper anywhere to go while the rifleing was forming and therefore caused undue wear. I don't know if this is true and in a hunting rifle that's shot a dozen times per year or less it's probably not a big concern. However that is why Barnes bullets have the rings on them.