Copper vs lead

[memtb]

I'm not a fan of dropping bullet weight, just to gain a little velocity. However, if the ranges encountered will not be benefited with a higher BC, or the bullet will be solely used on smaller/lighter structured big game ....go with a little lighter bullet.

For our (wife and self) applications, with the potential for longer shots and a variety of game sizes and structure, we use mono's of weights resembling conventional cup and core bullets. Using the heavier bullets affords us, through better BC's, better trajectories, higher retained velocities and energies. From our limited experience, big (as in heavier) bullets appear to kill smaller big game just fine! memtb

 

[Lovellr653]

When I first switched to copper bullets (TTSX) it was with my 30-06, I kept my bullet weight the same as my lead loads at 180gr. This combo worked good but I didn't realize until I started using 85gr TSX in a 243 for my wife and 120gr TTSX in my 260 that I didn't need a heavy bullet to get the performance I wanted on game ( in my case whitetail) I am now working on a load for the 30-06 with a 150gr TTSX and expect it to work quite well. From what I gather from reading and first hand experience is to make sure the bullet impact velocity is enough to initiate expansion... I believe Barnes has this posted on their website, unsure about other companies as I have no experience with them. Good luck

 

[cajun]

Truth is all copper is trying to emulate lead performance. My experience has been hit and miss with mostly Barnes. They are more expensive, usually have lower bc. I'm not paying twice the price for a hammer bullet. It may be good but it's not twice as good. Ymmv.

 

[bigngreen]

Dropping weight in a mono and running them faster is what looses elk, I drank that dumb Koolaid too many years, used to run Barnes light and hard in big guns and they had to hit them multiple time often, got of that train and went heavy for cal cup and core, instant problem solved drop way down on cartridge size with better results. Tested MANY monos over the years because I still like some aspects of them BUT until shooting the Hammers never got the terminal performance of the cup and core which is what matters, I still shoot them as heavy as I can cause speed don't kill squat consistently and over wide ranges especially on elk.

 

[shinbone]

"Truth is all copper is trying to emulate lead performance. "

Depends on what you mean by "performance". If by "performance" you mean quickly and humanely kills an animal, then yes, that is what a copper bullet is trying to do. However, copper bullets are using a different mechanism inside the animal to cause that quick and humane death.

The mistake of the first all-copper bullets was to try and copy lead's killing mechanism. This approach was flawed because lead and copper have fundamentally different material properties. When designers realized that copper bullet had to kill with a different mechanism is when all-copper bullets started to kill as well if not better than lead bullets.

 

[bigngreen]

I saw it the opposite, when copper bullets were trying to make a new way to kill from cup and core they failed to deliver and now more mono have basically abandoned the old Barnes theory of killing and made their bullets kill by fragging and creating massive bleeding wound channels like cup and core they are taking of again and we are seeing very, very good stuff in the mono bullet world!!

 

[snox801]

Truth is all copper is trying to emulate lead performance. My experience has been hit and miss with mostly Barnes. They are more expensive, usually have lower bc. I'm not paying twice the price for a hammer bullet. It may be good but it's not twice as good. Ymmv.

Twice the price in a sport that the bullet is the last thing I'm worried about. So you have a $6500 elk hunt with a guide. You happen upon your trophy bull at 60 yards and you launch your sp lead bullet into its shoulder because it's the cheapest bullet. Elk runs off and you now have a wounded bull and now that bullet cost you $6500.
I know that's drastic but why complain about a Bullets costing $1.50 each when more than likely you don't bat an eye at an expense scope or spending $2.50 for a beer you will **** out 20 min later.
Now I don't shoot targets or steel with hammers much but I'll be dammed if I go on any hunt without what I think is the best equipment I can afford.

 

[bigngreen]

Truth is all copper is trying to emulate lead performance. My experience has been hit and miss with mostly Barnes. They are more expensive, usually have lower bc. I'm not paying twice the price for a hammer bullet. It may be good but it's not twice as good. Ymmv.

As a recovering Barnes Koolaid drinker, ya their more than twice as good especially on elk!! Between how many you shoot per elk killed and the lethality of each round Barnes are ridiculously over priced!!

 

[JMW67]

from what I have seen with the Hammer bullets they act like a monolithic partition front part of the bullet frags off inside of the animal and the shank penetrates on through kinda seems like the best of both worlds nobody ever argues the killing power of a partition and will likely never argue the killing power of the hammer line of bullets, unless they just want to argue or make poor shots and need to place the blame some where

 

[shinbone]

" . . . Hammer bullets they act like a monolithic partition . . . "

Interesting analogy. Sounds pretty accurate, too.

 

[memtb]

Twice the price in a sport that the bullet is the last thing I'm worried about. So you have a $6500 elk hunt with a guide. You happen upon your trophy bull at 60 yards and you launch your sp lead bullet into its shoulder because it's the cheapest bullet. Elk runs off and you now have a wounded bull and now that bullet cost you $6500.
I know that's drastic but why complain about a Bullets costing $1.50 each when more than likely you don't bat an eye at an expense scope or spending $2.50 for a beer you will **** out 20 min later.
Now I don't shoot targets or steel with hammers much but I'll be dammed if I go on any hunt without what I think is the best equipment I can afford.

Add to this.....few seem to think about the $'s of fuel they run through their hunting rig to/from multiple hunts! But, complain about the price of bullets. I can easily spend more money in fuel and camping supplies in one trip, than a years worth of shooting my hunting rifle with premium bullets......jus say'n! memtb

 

[memtb]

As a recovering Barnes Koolaid drinker, ya their more than twice as good especially on elk!! Between how many you shoot per elk killed and the lethality of each round Barnes are ridiculously over priced!!

A situation I've never experienced. However, I've never shot "light for caliber" Barnes Bullets. I'used the same weight as though they had been conventional cup and core. That said, I keep my shots well within the recognized velocity requirements for the bullet, and try to put the bullet where needed! memtb

 

[cajun]

Twice the price in a sport that the bullet is the last thing I'm worried about. So you have a $6500 elk hunt with a guide. You happen upon your trophy bull at 60 yards and you launch your sp lead bullet into its shoulder because it's the cheapest bullet. Elk runs off and you now have a wounded bull and now that bullet cost you $6500.
I know that's drastic but why complain about a Bullets costing $1.50 each when more than likely you don't bat an eye at an expense scope or spending $2.50 for a beer you will **** out 20 min later.
Now I don't shoot targets or steel with hammers much but I'll be dammed if I go on any hunt without what I think is the best equipment I can afford.

Who said anything about using cheap bullets. I think a 160 accubond will kill that elk dead as a hammer( pun intended) for about half the price.

 

[CApighunter]

I started shooting hammers this year after using Barnes in the past. Much better internal trauma and MUCH easier load development. Barnes always were finicky to get to shoot in my experience. Hammers have been stupidly easy. Shot a buck with the 155 .284 hammer hunters and a hog with the 205 .338 sledgehammer so far.