Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor

[bigngreen]

The only thing keeping mono's from crushing those matches is the lower BC.

As for the rest it would make sense to me IF not for the fact that the dangerous game experts choose for themselves and recommend bullets that maintion 100% of their weight or near to it in order to ensure complete pass throughs and/or the deepest possible penetration.

I realize that elk have grown internal kevlar armor in the last few years but they certainly aren't as tough to bring down as animals like the big bears, Hippo, Cape Buffalo, Eland or Wildebeest.

Even for the largest and most dangerous predators like the Kodiak and Grizzly. Lions, Tigers, and Leopards they choose for themselves and recommend the same types of bullets.

The faster a bullet sheds it's weight the quicker it loses it's energy and the faster the reduction in sectional density both of which are essential to penetration.

Sorry, I just can't buy this line of reasoning.

It's not the BC's keeping monos down at all, I know guys who try every one that comes out and it's cost and grouping at 1000 yards the guys at the top will only look at groups, BC don't set records it helps in the wind but you don't so the max BC bullets being used.
This is elk hunting not Africa, if I see 30-40+ elk shot with one bullet in a week it's not hard to see a trend, I'm not saying how to kill buffalo but mule deer, elk and mt lions those I feel no problem having a solid opinion on how to kill them fast! If a guy from Africa came here with a 375 loaded with solids I'd make him shoot my rifle the same way he'd make me shoot his there and for the same reasons.
I've shot elk with African chamberings and bullets, don't work so hot unless you completely blow the shoulders out then you will be putting a round in it's neck to dispatch it most likely. 458 with 520 gr solids SUCK on elk and deer, they cover a LOT of country before tipping, load light hollow points in it and it drops elk like their lightning struck so the best, most lethal, bullet isn't the best on all weights of game.
The number of rifles I've built for hunting Africa and Alaska is a decent number, NONE have been built with solids in mind, all requests have been for Accubond and Bergers, I've been specifically asked not to set them up on Barnes but that's for game all below the big five all sub 375 cal.
I don't see many Cape buffalo videos where they tip over in a few yards with one bullet through the vitals, there seems to be multiple hits and running, for elk I'd consider that a wreck, two shots something in the system has failed, and elk running out of view with a bullet in it is a failure, I literally want them taking the hit and wobbling a few steps and dropping, tracking is a fail, anything less and I'm looking for why it was so slow, sometimes its operator.

 

[antelopedundee]

We have this thread because at the time he didn't understand where to put the SST for it to work properly and effectively.

He quickly learned and corrected himself.

And if you put a bullet that doesn't expand through the ribs odds are the animal runs off a long ways before dying.

We're all going to blow a shot from time to time but the rule still applies.

Pick the right bullet for your intended point of aim, keep your range within the limits of your equipment, ability, the current conditions and of course the game and then just do your part as the shooter.

I personally won't shoot the SST's at game because they are too frangible to suit me but I do understand what they were designed for which is punching the heart/lungs out of deer, varmints, and predators and they will perform as designed consistently. They also tend to be a very accurate bullet.

The bullet used in the OP was a 140 grain Nosler partition. He put the second shot in the same place [shoulder] as the first with the same result.

 

[clacka6mm]

The bullet used in the OP was a 140 grain Nosler partition. He put the second shot in the same place [shoulder] as the first with the same result.

And a 130 gr isnt a partition....... but. Who's counting. They only make 125 or 140......

 

[antelopedundee]

And a 130 gr isnt a partition....... but. Who's counting. They only make 125 or 140......

True, but that was quickly corrected in the early part of the thread and I revised my brainfart from a couple posts ago as well.

 

[30calyooper]

I know a Michigan guide/hunter who has taken good-sized black bear (450+ lbs) with a 140 Partition in a 6.5 Swede so I'm thinking at that range, it could have been a case of the angle of entry resulting in less-than-optimal expansion/penetration. Partitions are notorious for NOT expanding properly when the angle is not what it should be...
To be honest we've all heard the debate about whether the Creed is a legit elk cartridge, but IMO if you like Noslers than the Accubonds will do better in the Creed. Tough enough for elk but also will expand at lower velocities and more acute angles than the partition. Might take a minor bit of tweaking to get your load down, but starting with whatever you used for the 140 partition and working it up/down a bit shouldn't be a major undertaking. I've seen good accuracy with both the 140 Accubond and the 142 Long Range Accubond in the Creed, and impressive performance on deer...so if your daughter has the patience to wait for the shot I think it's manageable. FYI, accuracy from both my 6.5 Creeds with the 142 LRAB is top-notch in the 2700-2800 range. 2700fps/142 grain bullet = right around 2300 ft-lbs of energy, so weigh that factor when you consider how much recoil her launcher will throw at her. Good bet you can get the accuracy at a lower vel, but now you've got to take a HARD look at what range is legit for the hunt. From experience, cow elk take just as much to kill humanely as do the bulls, and no lethality index of any sort can predict perfectly what it'll take for a clean kill.
When working with young hunters I have always pushed a simple concept - wait for a clean shot at a range you KNOW you can handle. 400 yards is a nice distance, but if the shooter lacks the experience to go beyond 250 then you have a great opportunity to teach her about stalking!

 

[antelopedundee]

The 6.5mm 160 grain pencil bullets have been known to put down elephants. Mebbe time to try them.

 

[30calyooper]

The 6.5mm 160 grain pencil bullets have been known to put down elephants. Mebbe time to try them.

True enough! And many generations in Scandinavia have used them in the 6.5 Swede on moose. If a bullet with the right construction for elk and a good BC is readily available, it might be just the ticket for our friend and his daughter...again with the caveat to watch the range as lower velocity = more wind drift etc.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Except that doesn't always happen which is why we have this thread in the first place. I never go out with the idea that I'll shoot my critter in the shoulder. If some unforeseen thing causes it to happen then it happens.

I never go out with the idea that I'll shoot my critter in the gut. My shoulder shots have been killers.

 

[clacka6mm]

I never go out with the idea that I'll shoot my critter in the gut. My shoulder shots have been killers.

I just hate losing the shoulders to blood shot tho... rather take a high neck or boilermaker shot vs a direct shoulder hit

 

[Kentucky]

As it relates to the situation in the OP, the SST is really not a suitable bullet to use for elk since by design it is intended to expand/fragment quickly. It's more suitable for deer and smaller sized game. I was gong to use the SST for antelope last fall [we're talking 6.5mm 140 grain per the OP] but after listening to a few folks over at HuntTalk about excessive meat damage, I ended up using the Sierra GameChangers. Had I not found those by dumb luck I would have used my old standby Hornady 129 grain Interlocks. The Hornady ELD-X or Nosler accubonds might be more suitable for elk. If I was pursuing elk, I'd use a bullet capable of getting the job done in the event that I made a less than ideal shot. A SST bullet hitting an elk's rib might be enough to prevent adequate penetration into the lungs or liver.

I should have mentioned that I am not hunting elk. My hunting consists of white tail and a coyote now and then. The biggest deer I got this year was a decent sized buck. The SST 140 grain hit as about dead center shoulder as you could ask for. It was a three hundred yard shot and when it hit, he went stiff legged and fell over like a tree falling. I watched him during my "get over my gitter cigarette " and he was dead for sure. As I got on the four wheeler to go fetch him he started thrashing about and fell over into the woods. The hit DID kill him but it wasn't as fast as I like. This was when I thought about the quick expansion of the SST hitting shoulder bone. My next deer loads are going to be the ELD- X and I'm staying off of the shoulder.

 

[VTbluegrass]

I would say your bullet is fine just get closer. I know its a long range forum but 400 is a big ask for a young hunter when bullet placement is critical using light for game loads. Get within 200 and I'd bet a different result.


Just remember the 6.5x55 that every drones on about taking moose and stag for ages was loaded with a heavy bullet by people who likely stalked close and shot with iron sights. Not cross valley pokes zoomed in on 20X.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

I just hate losing the shoulders to blood shot tho... rather take a high neck or boilermaker shot vs a direct shoulder hit

I completely understand and of course, we're all going for the best heart/lung shot we can, but as we all know, the hunt can be and most times is, very dynamic and not under the best of conditions. For an elk, bullet choice is critical.
Boilermaker?!!! No, thanks...

 

[JimmyCP]

If you can shoot it accurately and you hunt where its long range abilities are a plus the .338 Lapua with super premium 300grain .338 boattailed bullets really reach out there as their B.C.s are so high. My old bones just will not take it anymore. I am an old Elmer Keith throwback type of guy emphasis on old. I still carry a Ruger .44 mag while walking around in the woods loaded with Randy Garrett 330 grain Hammerheads.

New 110 338 with Accustock soft as a kitten. My wife likes my son's better than her 6.5x284. Looks like I'll be shelling out more money for one for her next year.

 

[JimmyCP]

I would say your bullet is fine just get closer. I know its a long range forum but 400 is a big ask for a young hunter when bullet placement is critical using light for game loads. Get within 200 and I'd bet a different result.


Just remember the 6.5x55 that every drones on about taking moose and stag for ages was loaded with a heavy bullet by people who likely stalked close and shot with iron sights. Not cross valley pokes zoomed in on 20X.

Yep my Uncle had one from across the pond he loved. He never took a shot over 100 yards. At that time I was sceptical about it until he explained the twist rate. Great round