Bullet Construction vs Lethality

[memtb]

Thats why IMO the partition is probably the best bullet for under a 500yds and especially up to the 300yd range, it's not gonna blow apart at ranges less than 100yds like what you're saying about a cup and core does. I hit a deer at 40yds with my 270win and a 110 ttsx and it made a mess out of him, he never moved. It separated the hide from the meat on the exit side from shock maybe IDK but there was a lot of blood between the meat and hide.

Once upon a time the Partition was the bullet by which all others were measured. But as I said……once upon a time!

Still a good bullet within your ranges listed…..but, not great!

My findings are on close range, high velocity impact….the jacket folds at the partition back along the shank creating a projectile not substantially larger than the original caliber, the lead inside the jacket forward of the partition vanishes…..the recovered bullet then only weighs approximately 65% of it's original weight!

I prefer near 100% retained weight for greater penetration and double or greater original diameter expansion ……the full length of the wound channel. Though, this a bit difficult to verify with 100% certainty….as very few are recovered! memtb

 

[Northkill]

Could you elaborate, please?

Narrow-minded absolute statements like his aren't worth elevating to discussion. I doubt he realizes how the cult charge sounds like a mirror reflection. Those who cheer such foolish posts reveal themselves as well.

As to the thread, rather than virtual bloodshed over it on here, why don't we all go out with open minds and prove things ourselves. That's what I've been quietly doing for some time. Been running about everything mentioned here so far and have my own experience and observations. This was for everyone - not just you brother.

 

[Northkill]

https://drtammo.com/ has a very innovative approach to this situation; as far as I know, they are the only ones with this offering below.

View attachment 491563
(https://drtammo.com/product/drt-30-cal-175gr-terminal-match-projectile-50-pcs/)

View attachment 491565
(https://drtammo.com/product/drt-terminal-shock-30-cal-175gr-projectile-50pcs/)

Have you actually used these? I've gotten 2 boxes of that stuff for a 300 WSM myself to try. I wouldn't be the one to be making the recommendation. Not a fan of all the metal powder on a game animal... That's me. I'd love to hear your experience with them - terminally and target pics.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Narrow-minded absolute statements like his aren't worth elevating to discussion. I doubt he realizes how the cult charge sounds like a mirror reflection. Those who cheer such foolish posts reveal themselves as well.

As to the thread, rather than virtual bloodshed over it on here, why don't we all go out with open minds and prove things ourselves. That's what I've been quietly doing for some time. Been running about everything mentioned here so far and have my own experience and observations. This was for everyone - not just you brother.

Exactly. What fun would it be if we had only one bullet we used in every gun/rifle. Same for me. I've got about 10 different brand/types I use and each has suited me well. Some rifles are still a work in process and that's what makes it fun. Some brands I use more than others and I have my favorites of course. But not one brand I've found is the "say all do all" for every rifle in my safes.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

ButterBean,
I remember a time long ago that you actually brought great information and help to this forum. Now it seems your only purpose in life is to argue, demean and defend Hammer Bullets.


Steve,
Are you saying that the ballistic app isn't correct and that the 199 grain bullet actually will defy its lower BC in some way? I'm trying to understand what that "test" would even prove?

Have a great day everyone!
Steve

I am saying that bc is an accurate prediction of drop. It will predict the rate of velocity degradation due to drag. There is no formula for bullet drift. So we use bc to try and predict drift because it is the only thing that we have. There is no defying going on, there isn't an accurate drift predictor.

For years we have done long range shooting sessions with various rifles and cartridges on the same outing. Inevitably I always seemed to have pretty much the same wind hold with everything. I always just shrugged it off and didn't give it much thought. A while back during one of these bc and wind drift conversations @Alex Wheeler commented that he wished he had quite paying attention to bc for 1000y benchrest competition years ago. Turns out they are shooting smaller groups with lower bc bullets. This shouldn't be possible if wind drift is accurately measured with bc. When he posted that it was one of those lightbulb moments for me and looking back at all the times that bullets varying quite a bit in bc but showing little difference in wind hold. I did a video after that and compared a lower bc Hammer bullet to a high bc lead core bullet shot at 870y holding the identical wind and hitting the same .5 moa rock.

This is why I say it would be interesting for you to shoot both at the same time and see what real world difference there is. I don't know for sure but guessing there may not be as much difference as you might expect by going of wind drift predicted using bc.

Usually if people have more or less wind drift than they thought they would they figure they missed the wind call and don't give any thought to the calculator is working with the best formula that we have but it actually isn't exact.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

I get it when comparing price vs performance, especially when the focus is a long range hunting forum. Whether I have 600 or 6 grand in a rifle I'll practise a lot with it. So given the ballistics of the three bullets mentioned in you sale I'll take the Berger 156 gr EOL. I could get twice as many bullets for the price of the other two. And it has far more range than the other two and is a know killer.

@ xsn10s,.. YUP,.. Well said !
My Family, has / uses,.. 2 very Accurate, fairly cheap ( Under, $60.00 per Hundred ) Bullet Brands, that are,.. KNOWN / Proven ,.. "Killers"
But, "we" like to Practice a Lot so that, we can make, Humane Kills on Game that NEVER,.."gets away",.. very far.
Shoot, Test,. "Verify" what ever Bullet that,.. "Works" for,. YOU and your Rifle !

 

[Northkill]

Exactly. What fun would it be if we had only one bullet we used in every gun/rifle. Same for me. I've got about 10 different brand/types I use and each has suited me well. Some rifles are still a work in process and that's what makes it fun. Some brands I use more than others and I have my favorites of course. But not one brand I've found is the "say all do all" for every rifle in my safes.

You are correct. I've had good success with most when used properly within their design/application parameters. Like you, there's just some that are more my go-to's than others... But I'm always trying new stuff. $$$

 

[ButterBean]

Narrow-minded absolute statements like his aren't worth elevating to discussion. I doubt he realizes how the cult charge sounds like a mirror reflection. Those who cheer such foolish posts reveal themselves as well.

As to the thread, rather than virtual bloodshed over it on here, why don't we all go out with open minds and prove things ourselves. That's what I've been quietly doing for some time. Been running about everything mentioned here so far and have my own experience and observations. This was for everyone - not just you brother.

You slobbered a Bib full right there

 

[asd9055]

I am saying that bc is an accurate prediction of drop. It will predict the rate of velocity degradation due to drag. There is no formula for bullet drift. So we use bc to try and predict drift because it is the only thing that we have. There is no defying going on, there isn't an accurate drift predictor.

For years we have done long range shooting sessions with various rifles and cartridges on the same outing. Inevitably I always seemed to have pretty much the same wind hold with everything. I always just shrugged it off and didn't give it much thought. A while back during one of these bc and wind drift conversations @Alex Wheeler commented that he wished he had quite paying attention to bc for 1000y benchrest competition years ago. Turns out they are shooting smaller groups with lower bc bullets. This shouldn't be possible if wind drift is accurately measured with bc. When he posted that it was one of those lightbulb moments for me and looking back at all the times that bullets varying quite a bit in bc but showing little difference in wind hold. I did a video after that and compared a lower bc Hammer bullet to a high bc lead core bullet shot at 870y holding the identical wind and hitting the same .5 moa rock.

This is why I say it would be interesting for you to shoot both at the same time and see what real world difference there is. I don't know for sure but guessing there may not be as much difference as you might expect by going of wind drift predicted using bc.

Usually if people have more or less wind drift than they thought they would they figure they missed the wind call and don't give any thought to the calculator is working with the best formula that we have but it actually isn't exact.

When Alex talks, I always pay attention. I learned a lot from his postings.
I am trying to understand the comparison. Are we talking same caliber, same mass, same velocity, different BC, or same caliber/cartridge, different everything. I like to picture things so I can understand them.
Thanks

 

[Northkill]

Yes, which means I am more open than most.

Depends on the reasons for that "one". I will not make my decisions by emotional reactions. Drama-be-****...if somebody makes a projo that I can use and it works well, I'm using it. I don't pick a side against something based on emotion. That hurts oneself... Having said that, if principle is involved, that's another story. But adding to that, more often than not, folks use emotion in perceiving and defining principle. Human nature gets us every time. My approach has been a great benefit to my experience and progress in general. (not assuming anything about yourself...just sayin)

 

[Huntnful]

These groups were shot back to back with the same wind hold (I think around an 8-10MPH wind) and a good zero at 600 yards. Also using advertised BC's. The Berger's were around 2900fps and the 131 hammers were near 3100 fps if I remember correctly. Just under 1 MOA of extra wind drift with the lower BC bullet going 200fps faster. Wind going from right to left.

 

[ButterBean]

These groups were shot back to back with the same wind hold (I think around an 8-10MPH wind) and a good zero at 600 yards. Also using advertised BC's. The Berger's were around 2900fps and the 131 hammers were near 3100 fps if I remember correctly. Just under 1 MOA of extra wind drift with the lower BC bullet going 200fps faster.
View attachment 491803

Thanks for the comparison

 

[Alex Wheeler]

BC is how we predict drop. It works out very well. Its easy to test it. Does anyone really expect one number to describe the front of the bullet and the side of the bullet? BC can predict time of flight and we can estimate windage from there. But no, BC does not not predict windage as well as it does drop in my experience.

 

[2buffalo]

These groups were shot back to back with the same wind hold (I think around an 8-10MPH wind) and a good zero at 600 yards. Also using advertised BC's. The Berger's were around 2900fps and the 131 hammers were near 3100 fps if I remember correctly. Just under 1 MOA of extra wind drift with the lower BC bullet going 200fps faster. Wind going from right to left.
View attachment 491803

I wonder how much the extra 9 grains of bullet weight affects it? Meaning if they were both the same weight would the difference be that much?