Bullet Construction vs Lethality

It must really be a really complicated engineering problem, to get any projectile, with any construction, to behave in the same manner as it does at 100 yards traveling at 2700 or 2800 fps , as it will do at 800 or 1000 yards , traveling at 1200 to 1400 Fps. I am impressed with all the achievements and progress that has been made over the past twenty years in that aera. I am also pleased that the development continues. We have come a long way since Silver tips and Core Lockts were the standard !! We have come a long way since 300 yards was considered really long range. Ask your Father or Grandfather. !! A sincere "well done " to all the bullet makers and the barrel makers, who give us the means to accurately place a shot at 1000 yards.
 
Remember the crud show that went on when fordy stated the number of animals he's taken?
People attacked him like wild dogs on fresh 🍖 meat.
Then we all found out that hunting is his profession-- and he's pretty darn good at it.

Sometimes "bs" has to be called, and a man needs to back up his statements with hard evidence for people to take them seriously. This is the internet.

I try to stay neutral and let other people call bs, but every once in a while someone pushes the right button in me too.

In response to Steve's 1/2 moa question---i can shoot single shot cold bore groups of 1/2 moa any/every day of the week, 365 days a year--- the problem comes when I start shooting more than 1 bullet ---😂

People will allways have personal preferences- and should, but in my eyes the 1st priority for lrh is getting the accuracy you feel is adequate for the distances you shoot (if you can't hit the animal you can't kill it)--- then comes terminal performance.

That's where personal preference steps in combined with proven performance on the animal. If you have 2 different bullet constructions that kill, then let a guy choose which one he likes. Everyone need not use the same one.

I like to see discussions with hard data, that way I can make my own decisions based off my own needs--- I love to say "you do you", to me that's 'merica!
Lol!! I guess I should have said the same target! I too can shoot amazing one shot groups!
 
Just out of idle curiosity has anyone ever done any gel tests on the actual performance with the gel block set out to 1000 or whatever magical range that we are talking about here? Would like to hear what the results were, first off on how many shots it took to hit the gel block and then the penetration and bullet performance. As it is said, "Inquiring minds want to know."
 
@BillLarson, I know what you mean, if you are receptive to learning and information sharing, it makes it a non-conducive environment - too many unnecessary distractors. From the start most people knew it is going to be controversial. Having said that, I respect George's (@nralifer) post and intent esp. as a site sponsor and Badlands Bullets owner, not that it matters.

George my apologies for contributing to the distractions. I too am here to learn. I learned early on that there are always somebody with more real-world experience and knowledge that are always willing and able to lend a helping hand. I miss those old timers that either no longer with us or have since moved on elsewhere - Jerry/JEC Custom, LTLR, goodgrouper, BROZ, etc.
 
Just out of idle curiosity has anyone ever done any gel tests on the actual performance with the gel block set out to 1000 or whatever magical range that we are talking about here? Would like to hear what the results were, first off on how many shots it took to hit the gel block and then the penetration and bullet performance. As it is said, "Inquiring minds want to know."
IIRC, James at Barbour Creek did a few with different bullets.
 
Just out of idle curiosity has anyone ever done any gel tests on the actual performance with the gel block set out to 1000 or whatever magical range that we are talking about here? Would like to hear what the results were, first off on how many shots it took to hit the gel block and then the penetration and bullet performance. As it is said, "Inquiring minds want to know."
If someone would send me the gel blocks, bullets to be tested, I would load them to 1000yd velocities and test those bullets in the gel. I know, rough duty I'm volunteering, but I would do it for all ya'lls! (We would all have to understand that would be a direct comparison between the bullets in that particular and calibrated test medium, for gel tests don't always a real true indicator of terminal ballistics on animals)
 
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I did a quick search on the web: interesting that I could find very few videos of bullets being shot Long Range into ballistics gel to see how they performed at distances longer than 200 hundred yards.
I'm sure there are members on the forum that have a lot of Real-World (on game) experience with various bullet calibers, types and manufacturers.
That said, I have over the years done a lot of hunting, been on a lot of animal kills (and unfortunately animals shot and not recovered at all or several days after the shot) and have my own standards as to what type of bullet I'll use, and at what distance I'll take the shot.
I have seen the performance or lack thereof, of bullets that explode on impact. As a young hunter and reloader I bought some bullets to reload, tested on the range and shot a nice muley buck at just over 200 yards (270 Win, 130gr), just after daylight on some property my uncle owned. The buck took off after initially dropping. We let stayed put for about 30 minutes before tracking, and it took us hours before we were able to put a finishing shot into him. When we opened him up, we found the bullet had hit the back of the front leg bone and disintegrated. The damage would have eventually killed the buck, but I learned a great lesson about bullet performance, and relegated those bullets to the range practice and jackrabbit/coyote use only bin.
On the flip side, I shot a smaller buck with a bullet designed for long range (shot was 125 yards from a stand). I found a speck of blood and tracked the buck for several hundred yards before finding it dead. The bullet had punched through the ribcage hitting no bone, with an entry and exit wound hole the same size and a lot of blood inside the chest: not good blood trail to follow.
I am not married to one bullet type or brand.
I keep my shots under 600 yards in most all cases, and when I shoot at an animal at long range, it's not at a range longer than I practice, the animal calm, I have plenty of area around the animal to offer me a follow up shot if needed (or to see the animal drop) and at least one spotter who I trust to tell me impact and follow the animal in the scope/bino etc. I have passed on some nice animals because the criteria weren't met: full disclosure, I'm a meat hunter and since I can't eat the rack...
I have used with great success a variety of bullets like Partitions, Grand Slam, Accubonds TSX, e-Tips and SST, but don't always use the same bullets when hunting from a stand where my shots are likely to be closer, than I use when shots are typically going to be longer.
If I give advice to someone about bullets, I tell them the following:
-Use what shoots extremely accurate in your rifle.
-Use bullets that have known terminal performance on game animals and keep your shots to what you practice (if you don't practice shots to 500 yards in all kinds of conditions, don't shoot that distance in a hunting situation).
-Look at as many dead game animals as you can to see what the bullets did to them and ask as many questions as you can about conditions, distance, etc. so you can make an informed decision.
As has been pointed out by others, there is no magic bullet out there and while I make no claim to being particularly smart, I can't imagine it's even possible to build one that can do it all at all distances, at all angles, in all conditions, hitting bone or passthrough.
Ryan Furman says this about OWC/Ladder testing, and I believe the bullet situation is the same, "people want to get all emotional about a tiny group"... just because the bullet shoots tiny groups, doesn't mean it will kill effectively and efficiently all the time.
That was more than 2 cents: sorry for that, but many of you did pull out the popcorn and other snacks! :)
 
I have done the 1000 yard Ballistic gel tests but it is not very effective for gathering quantities of meaningful information. If you use standard sized gel blocks, it is difficult to center the shot so you get a lot of side exits. If you make the gel blocks big enough that you won't get side exits like 24" cube. The ballistic gel is too cumbersome to handle and of course very expensive. I finally settled on downloading to achieve the desired impact velocity at short range. I realize the rotational forces will not be the same but I got similar performances.
1800 fps seems to be an accepted minimum impact velocity, but I can tell you that most of the bullets we all love, don't perform very well at 1800 fps.
It is truly an engineering challenge to get a bullet that performs at 1800-3200 fps. I haven't seen it yet.
 
Remember the crud show that went on when fordy stated the number of animals he's taken?
People attacked him like wild dogs on fresh 🍖 meat.
Then we all found out that hunting is his profession-- and he's pretty darn good at it.

Sometimes "bs" has to be called, and a man needs to back up his statements with hard evidence for people to take them seriously. This is the internet.

I try to stay neutral and let other people call bs, but every once in a while someone pushes the right button in me too.

In response to Steve's 1/2 moa question---i can shoot single shot cold bore groups of 1/2 moa any/every day of the week, 365 days a year--- the problem comes when I start shooting more than 1 bullet ---😂

People will allways have personal preferences- and should, but in my eyes the 1st priority for lrh is getting the accuracy you feel is adequate for the distances you shoot (if you can't hit the animal you can't kill it)--- then comes terminal performance.

That's where personal preference steps in combined with proven performance on the animal. If you have 2 different bullet constructions that kill, then let a guy choose which one he likes. Everyone need not use the same one.

I like to see discussions with hard data, that way I can make my own decisions based off my own needs--- I love to say "you do you", to me that's 'merica!
It's the same old thing Bud nothing new, it doesn't bother me in the least anymore, in fact I find it quite amusing that I'm living rent free in so many peoples heads
 
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