The way a lot of guys who run it load it, it will. That brass and small primer will run real close to the others without showing pressure. Not saying its the same thing but I have seen some REAL fast 6 and 6.5x47 stuff. Faster than it should be if ya get my meaning.
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6.5 Credmoor vs 7mm-08
- Thread starter Glocklover72
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
Todd it just can't be done, period.
You can only do so much with a given case volume. Whatever you can do with the Lapua you can do with the others and still maintain 100-200fps more with them than you can the Lapua.
There's nothing magical about the 6.5x47 case and the same companies manufacturing the best brass for it are also making it for the CM, Rem, and Swede.
There's certainly nothing magical about the small primer either.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
The only advantage the small primer pocket has is that it can take more pressure before the primer pocket stretches, because there's more brass material around the case head.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Theoretically at least that is true but in practice it's a very minimal difference.
You're going to be flattening primers due to pressure before seeing any measurable growth in the primer pocket.
We're also only talking about a difference of .035" in the diameter of the two.
If you're pushing max loads that might add up to a difference of one firing on the brass. If you're trying to be economical though you won't be trying to push either of them to the max.
I guess you didn't get the meaning of my post. I'm pretty sure the 47s are being ran REALLLLLLLY hot and the brass and primers are masking it. The "IF YA KNOW WHAT I MEAN" was my reference to that. And yes you can run a smaller capacity case at higher velocity. Just takes more pressure.
My buddy shoots a 47 faster than most Creeds or 260s, you can TASTE the pressure.
Didn't mean it was intelligent or safe.
Pretty sure the smaller flash hole hides pressure at the primer better. My point was that people think the 47 will run with the 260 and Creed because the pressure is way beyond SAAMI spec. It's the only way to get there. If any brass will mask that much pressure swing it's the 47. Same reason guys can run the 308 Palma and PPC so hot. Internal pressure is higher but the flash hole transfers less to the primer.
Not magic, more like masking.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Todd a given case will only hold so much powder, you can't put any more in it than it will hold.
Of course I got it which is why I said you can run the 260 hot as well and it's still going to run 100-200fps more than the 6.5x47.
If someone wants to be stupid and load them up to the point of failure they can do it with either caliber but you can't make the Laupa hold as much powder as the .260.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Very true. I don't use Palma brass, but I was just repeating what they claim are the advantage of the SR primer over the LR primer.
I understand your point and in some ways you are correct. Especially from a SAAMI standpoint. Now lets talk real world reloading as done by most guys who don't have QL on their IPHONE 16 and a strain gauge in their rifle case.
You can run a 47 to higher pressure than a 260 without showing pressure signs. Doesn't mean jack crap about PSI, just what it shows.
QL will tell us that we are going nuts but the brass won't. So yes the 260 will run 100+ faster than the 47 with similar pressure. However there are plenty of guys running a LOT more pressure than 260 guys are due to brass construction. A 260 will show pressure before a 47 in most cases has been my point all along and I don't think anyone who has worked with both extensively will deny that.
We aren't talking about measured pressure here but pressure SIGNS. Lots of guys outrun their cartridge design and never know they are doing it.
Brass toughness and primer construction are a HUGE factor in pressure signs. I have built a lot of rigs that will show no pressure at what I know is well over the rated PSI and others that cry like a lil girl well under SAAMI, all depending on the brand of brass. Throw in a small flash hole and super tough brass and you have a perfect storm for guys to overload the 47 to 260 specs and have nno clue whats going on. May not be smart but it happens every day.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
What I am saying isn't somewhat true, or partially true, it's absolutely true.
There is only so much powder you can stuff in a given case and the 6.5x47 case volume is about 2gr's less than the 260.
If you look at load data many of those publishing data today give you a % number. That percentage is percentage of full case volume.
It doesn't matter what caliber you're talking about they all have the same limitation.
There are lots of ways to deal with pressure from the powder you choose, primer, throat length, bullet type, and seating depth. None of them will make a case hold any more powder other than seating depth/overall length and any tricks you can play with one, you can play with the other.
You're not going to make the 6.5x47 run with the .260 unless you are way overloading the first while under loading the second or by running a lighter bullet with the Lapua than the Remington.
Same bullet same loading philosophy, same outcome, the .260 and the CM outrun the Lapua.
Please explain. I do have a 6.5X47 built by RBROS that drives a 130 Berger at 3000 fps. Before I built this gun I researched the Creed and the 260 and the velocity was so close to the same I went with the X47. A 260 AI I agree can have more velocity. I see no love on here for the X47. Sorry that I am not a 260 or a Creedmore fan boy.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I hope all of this "Good" information has not confused you. We tend to get into deep discussions and debates sometimes but normally everyone learns something.
As you can tell ether cartridge will be good for what you want. Look at the pro's and con's of each and decide. you cant go wrong with ether.
There will always be faster cartridges and slower cartridges and also favorite cartridges of each member. Doesn't mean one is right and everyone else is wrong, just that's there favorite.
For low recoil and good ballistics they are both great cartridges. There has also been a lot of discussions about twist rates. My recommendation would be to go with a twist rate that will handle "All" bullet weights accurately and not one that is designed for only the biggest bullets or the lightest bullets. if you intend to hand the rifle down, normally youths start with the lighter bullets for recoil reasons and you may want to shoot the heaviest bullets So a 1 in 9 will handle all bullet weights in 6.5 and 7mm and you wont be locked down to a certain bullet. Keep it simple and you wont regret it.
Most 6.5's and 7 /08's will handle deer sized game to 800 yards and targets to 1200 yards with great success so you are in good company with ether.
Just getting back on track with OPs question.
J E CUSTOM
Hondo64d
Well-Known Member
Of the two you mention, I would go with the 6.5 CM. Do you handload? If not, the CM has the advantage of reasonably priced match accurate factory ammo. If you do handload, the CM has a shorter case, making it easier to seat bullets to touch the lands and still function through a normal 2.8" factory magazine box. The CM was designed to run VLD type bullets out of a common 2.8" magazine box and still be close to the lands. Very forward thinking on Hornady's part. If you are going to shoot long range, the VLD type Bullets are the order of the day and reaching the lands with, say a 168gr VLD in a 7mm-08 when loaded to magazine length is not going to happen unless you have a custom throat. Many folks don't realize that those long VLD type bullets need a shorter throat, not longer.
As far as the discussion of the 6.5x47 vs the CM, Wild Rose is correct that when loaded to the same pressures, the larger case capacity will always win. But, it is also true that if you load the 6.5x47 to pressures they are normally being loaded to, say 70 to 72k, its primer pockets will hold up. Load a .260 or CM to the same pressures and you'll have loose pockets pretty quick. Been there and done that. So, if you load the 6.5x47 to its max potential, it stays really close to the .260 and CM. It just does it by operating at a higher pressure.
John
I don't know what pressure my 6.5X47 is running. When Travis built my gun I asked if his load that he developed for me was at MAX. He assured me it was not. So if he says that I am not at max and am driving a 130 Berger at 3000 fps out of a 26" barrel do you guys think I am running to much pressure? The gun,brass and primers so zero signs of pressure.
